From: L A Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 1:05pm Subject: Delta Squad's prosecutor sues; http://webpublisher.lexisnexis.com/index.asp?layout=story&gid=790000479&cid=1410002341&did=47V1-CXK0-00D6-K3MR-00000-00&b=s Delta Squad's prosecutor sues; The sheriff and two workers are accused of using a restricted database to; gather personal information. Copyright 2003 Sarasota Herald-Tribune Co. Sarasota Herald-Tribune...02/01/2003 KELLY CRAMER, kelly.cramer@h... The U.S. attorney who prosecuted six members of the Manatee County Sheriff's Office is suing Sheriff Charlie Wells and two of his employees, claiming they used a restricted state database to gather personal information about him. Federal prosecutor Jeffrey Del Fuoco filed the lawsuit Friday in U.S. District Court. Del Fuoco led a corruption investigation into the sheriff's Delta Squad, an anti-drug unit. In the end, five members of the squad and another former deputy were sent to federal prison. In his lawsuit, Del Fuoco accuses employees at the Sheriff's Office of getting information such as his address and Social Security number in order to retaliate against him for putting their colleagues in prison. Del Fuoco's lawyer, Craig Huffman, said the prosecutor suspects deputies may have been planning to plant drugs in Del Fuoco's home or car. "This was the modus operandi of the Delta Squad," Huffman said. "They carried insurance and their insurance was crack cocaine." Lola Foy, an crime analyst with the Sheriff's Office, pulled Del Fuoco's license plate and driver's license information two days after the last former deputy was sentenced June 4, 2001. Del Fuoco said in the lawsuit that he never drove his personal car in Manatee County. Nothing ever happened to Del Fuoco, but he wants to send a message that prosecutors who go after corrupt cops won't be intimidated, Huffman said. Sheriff's Office spokesman Dave Bristow said Del Fuoco's theory is outrageous. Sheriff Wells could not be reached for comment Friday. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement discovered Foy's search in November as part of a routine check agents sometimes perform on federal prosecutors. FDLE agents and the sheriff's investigators interviewed Foy in November and December, and she told them she couldn't remember who, if anyone, asked her to do the search, according to a sheriff's report. "I would only utilize any information I have obtained from any source in a lawful matter," Foy said in a written statement. The burden is on the Sheriff's Office to prove that, Huffman said. Huffman said the U.S. attorney's office as well as the FDLE may be conducting criminal investigations into Foy's research. Congress passed a law in 1994 that criminalized obtaining driver's license information for personal use after Rebecca Schaeffer, an actress on the sitcom "My Sister Sam," was killed by a stalker in 1989. The stalker got her home address from driver's license information. The investigation into the Delta Squad was never officially closed. Del Fuoco said in 2001 that he would be looking into how far up the ranks the corruption went. There has been no public activity on the case since. Del Fuoco would not prosecute any new charges in the case because he no longer works in the public corruption unit. He moved to the major crimes division last year. Steve Cole, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's Office, told the Tampa Tribune he couldn't comment on Del Fuoco's lawsuit. Wells designed the Delta unit to stop crack cocaine dealing. The Delta agents' tactics, which included planting evidence and stealing money during traffic stops, forced local prosecutors to drop more than 100 Delta drug cases involving 67 defendants. Michael Fetcher of the Tampa Tribune contributed to this report. ===== L. Altman Caliber Investigation Agency (NYC) cia1.bravepages.com cia@i... Ph# 1-718-318-2214 Fax 1-718-318-2866 Newsletters: http://cia1.bravepages.com/nwsltr/Archives.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com 6874 From: wes mooty Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 9:13pm Subject: g.p.s. hideing places could anyone offer any advice where on a truck or car a g.p.s. tracking device mite be hidden.....preferable a 2001 f 150 ford pick up....or how to test and see if one mite be attached to ones truck...thanks in advance.. 6875 From: Carl A. Clauson Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 4:38am Subject: Institute for Security Technology Studies Here is a request for help. If any of you are able to provide assistance, I will leave it up to you. Carl Clauson Editor PISA News! Come visit at: www.pisa.gen.va.us ************************************************************** Institute for Security Technology Studies Gap Analysis Project Request for Input ************************************************************** The following is a request from Kevin O'Shea of the Institute for Security Technology Studies at Dartmouth. For more information, please contact Mr. O'Shea at: Kevin O'Shea Technical Analysis Group Cyber Attack Investigative Tools: Gap Analysis Project Institute for Security Technology Studies 45 Lyme Road Hanover, NH 03755 gapanalysis2003@i... 603-646-0700 -------------------------------------------------------------- My name is Kevin O'Shea and I am a researcher with the Technical Analysis Group at the Institute for Security Technology Studies at Dartmouth College. We are looking for assistance from you and your organization in identifying existing tools and technologies for investigating cyber attacks for our Gap Analysis project. The Institute for Security Technology Studies was created in early 2000 with the mission to serve as a center for counter terrorism technology research, development, and evaluation, with a particular focus on cyber-security and critical information infrastructure. Additional information can be found at http://www.ists.dartmouth.edu The Technical Analysis Group is developing a research and development agenda for law enforcement tools and technologies for investigating cyber attacks. We recently finished the first step of the project; a national Needs Assessment where we asked law enforcement about the technological impediments they face when responding to and investigating cyber attacks. The findings have been published and can be downloaded at: http://www.ists.dartmouth.edu/TAG/lena.htm We are now moving onto the next phase of the project, the Gap Analysis, where we will gather and catalog the available tools, and match them up against the perceived needs of the cyber attack investigators. The results will illustrate where additional research and development should be conducted. Additional information regarding the Gap Analysis project can be found at: http://www.ists.dartmouth.edu/TAG/gap_analysis.htm Submit a Solution ----------------- If you have developed or used a tool which assists in the investigation of cyber attacks, we ask that you visit our "Submit a Solution" page to provide a detailed description of the functionality of the tool and which Law Enforcement specific impediment(s) the tool addresses. The "Submit a Solution" page can be found at the following URL: http://www.ists.dartmouth.edu/TAG/subtool/register.htm The Investigative Research for Infrastructure Assurance group here at ISTS has initiated a project to examine training programs for cyber attack investigators. Details on the project and contact information on how to become involved can be found at: http://www.ists.dartmouth.edu/IRIA/projects/d_letraining.htm Please feel free to forward this email to anyone you believe would have information to contribute to the project. We thank you for helping us with this national effort, and we look forward to working together in the future. Sincerely, Kevin O'Shea -------------------------------------------------------------- The JUSTNETNews Mailing List is maintained by the National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center. Regular postings include the weekly Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology News Summary and announcements from NLECTC and the National Institute of Justice Office of Science and Technology (NIJ/OS&T). To SUBSCRIBE, use the online form at: http://www.nlectc.org/justnetnews/nlectc_subscribe.asp OR send a plain-text email containing only the message "join JUSTNETNews firstname lastname" (without quotes) to the address listmanager@n.... 6876 From: kondrak Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 6:29pm Subject: Re: Stop telemarketers They are not Dual-Tone freqs. The be-boo-be tones are discreete. Look at them on a scope. At 08:56 2/3/03 -0600, you wrote: >The main thing I see that is wrong with those tones is that our DTMF tones >are two frequencies per tone, not one (thus Dual Tone Multi-Frequency >designation). Do you know the second tone for the three tones you >mentioned? > >Sgt. Kirk Sewell >Illinois State Police, Technical Investigations >500 Iles Park Place, Suite 300 >Springfield, IL 62718 >(217)524-6079 > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 6877 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 7:32pm Subject: Re: TSCM strategy, evaluation & contrtol On 3 Feb 2003 at 5:09, Romeo Mabasa wrote: > We're currently developing the above mentioned things and need your > input. We were given a budget and we need ways to improve on it. You're asking for work product from a small number of competent people who have spent entire careers and thousands of hours developing their skills. The proper thing to do is to hire a consultant and pay his rate to advise you and work with you to develop your plans. That will, by far, be the best use of your budget. You're not likely to get a good reception asking people to give away their work product. There may be as many as 15 or 20 people on this list who would qualify to consult with you. Ask for references. Reword your request, acknowledging you are willing to pay for the fruits of a man's labor, which he uses to feed his family, and you may get a few responses. Not everything on the web is free. What is free is usually worth what you pay for it, if that. Persons on this list are responsible for millions of dollars' worth of information security. That is not freebies. Try again with a differently worded request and you may get some offers. This is a valid place to seek such services. Many of us provide them, but as a cost. Regards ... Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 6878 From: Charles P. Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 11:44pm Subject: Re: Stop telemarketers The three tones are often known as SIT tones (Special Information Tones). They are used by the phone company to indicated a line that is not in service or some other line situations (Vacant Code/ Intercept/ Reorder/ and No Circuit). Some telemarketing computer systems are sensitive to the tones and will knock your number off of their list when they hear it. A friend of mine in NJ said it made a big difference in the number of telemarketing calls at his residence. But it depends on the equipment used by the caller. The units have been available for a number of years but have seen a recent increase in popularity due partly to the p.i.t.a. telemarketers and partly to marketing by Radio Shack and others. Charles Charles Patterson Global Communications Tarrytown, NY charles@t... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Horton" To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:02 AM Subject: [TSCM-L] Stop telemarketers > Received this e-mail from a pal. Is this on the up and up? > > Subject: No Telemarket > > > > K. Alan Carlton, Professional Home & Building Inspection Consultant, > Fort Worth, Texas 817 572-3300 > Amateur Radio Operator N5GKY > > YES, YOU CAN STOP TELEMARKETERS ' annoying calls, or at least slow them > down: Those 3 familiar tones courtesy of Ma-Bell will do the trick. > > Most Telemarketers use what is called Predictive Dialers, which are PCs > with software that dials ever number in a phone exchange until it gets > lucky. Now you can use their own technology against them, and it's > legal. Here is how their system works: the dialer calls your number, > you answer, and you have probably notice the line appears dead after you > said, "Hello". What their computer is doing is listening for a short > burst of audio, your "HELLO", followed by a period of silence. With > this heard, it will log your phone number as valid and transfer the call > to an available telemarketer, the reason for the delay before someone > comes on line. > > Now, if their computer receives a long audio burst (an answering > machine) " Hello, this is Alan Carlton", then it will disconnect, but it > will log you phone number as valid, for a later call-back. Oh Lovely! > Some are even capable of detecting Fax tones and will even transmit a > fax trying to sell selling something you're probably are not interested > in. However, do not answer, or when you do answer the phone, or if fax > tones are detected, or if it detects an answering machine, in all four > (4) cases IT LOGS YOUR NUMBER AS A GOOD PHONE NUMBER FOR FUTURE CALL- > BACK --- PLUS THE COMPANY IS ALSO SELLING THESE VERIFIED VALID NUMBERS > LIST TO OTHER TELEMARKETERS. > > A SIMPLE WAY TO STAY OFF THE LIST IS TO USE THEIR OWN TECHNOLOGY AGAINST > THEM. > > The predictive dialer's software also looks for NON-valid phone numbers, > and there is a simple way you can make your phone number appear invalid > to the telemarketers' computers, thus they do not call back and > accumulate no database, at least with your number, to sell other > Telemarketers. > > Here is how to do it: If you call a number that has been disconnected > or is no longer in service you will hear 3 short tones, > "doo...dah...dee", thanks to Ma-Bell. Each time you Refresh this page > you should hear, "doo...dah...dee". The actual frequency of these > tones are 985.2 Hz, 1370.6 Hz, and 1776.7 Hz. Guess what the > telemarketers' software does when it detects these 3 tones at the > beginning of your outgoing message? It thinks it has reached a line > that is disconnected or is no longer in service. So, it disconnects and > does not log your phone number as a working number. BINGO! > > NOW record these onto you outgoing message or voice mail announcement, > and start exterminating telemarketers. Try this example, but use your > own name, "doo...dah...dee, Hello, This is Alan Carlton". It must be at > the beginning of your announcement to work. You may have to explain it > to you friends, but they will soon have it on theirs' too. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > 6879 From: Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 7:22pm Subject: Re: Re: TSCM strategy, evaluation & contrtol In a message dated 2/5/2003 5:34:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, steve@s... writes: > Persons on this list are responsible for millions of dollars' worth > of information security. You meant many Billions didn't you. Éminence grise, Being an ex in this business is like being an ex-marine, ex-biker, ex-Mafia member, or an ex-homosexual. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 6880 From: Andrus Aaslaid Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 2:20am Subject: GSM vehicle tracking Hello All! I have been following this list for several years and although have not had much opportunity to contribute back (mostly because of feeling small and unimportant after reading the posts from number of gentelman here :)), I do enjoy a lot the skills and proffessionalism found here! After being envolved as owner and member of the board for five years in electronics design company (www.artecdesign.ee), I am now happy to announce my envolvement with another company, more relevant to this list - Oskando OÜ. The sole business of Oskando is GSM-based vehicle tracking and remote telemetry systems, as well as other GSM-based industrial devices. If any information is needed, please visit http://www.oskando.ee/eng Best Regards, Andrus. -- Andrus Aaslaid OÜ Oskando Phone: +372 673 7300 Fax: +372 673 7301 Direct: +372 50 28018 andrus.aaslaid@o... http://www.oskando.ee 6881 From: Times Enemy Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 2:25pm Subject: Re: g.p.s. hideing places greets. > could anyone offer any advice where on a truck or car a g.p.s. > tracking device mite be hidden.....preferable a 2001 f 150 ford pick > up....or how to test and see if one mite be attached to ones > truck...thanks in advance.. Kind of an interesting question. But then, if a surge of 2001 F150 trucks start to vanish in your area ... well ... Phrack (Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3c, Phile #0x0d of 0x10) had a nice article on a nifty device for making an alleged GPS jammer. I'm including this, along with a portion of the text .... Also, in this text are various frequencies and such which could prove useful if you were to do some scanning or such of a vehicle. --- included snippet ---[ 2 - Why? The onslaught of cheap GPS based navigation (or hidden tracking devices) over the past few years has made it necessary for the typical citizen to take up the fine art of electronic warfare. Several companies[2] now sell "hidden" GPS based tracking devices which mount inside or underneath your vehicle. Some transmit the coordinates, via cellular phone, of your vehicle's present and/or past locations for weeks at a time without battery changes or court orders! Vehicle rental companies have been known to use GPS tracking devices to verify you don't speed or abuse their rental vehicles. The unsuspecting renter is often faced with these hidden abuse "fees" after returning the rental vehicle. --- z end of z snippet ciao .times enemy 6882 From: Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 11:17am Subject: Stop Telemarketers with S.I.T. Tone (Special Information Tone) Disconnet You can get the SIT Tone off of www.sandman.com/tmstop.html and record it in front of your outgoing message on your answering system, I did this last year and it worked to some extent and then I ended up buying their device because I was still getting telemarketing calls, so now when I pick up the phone it plays the SIT and the predictive dialing computer thinks that it has reached a disconnected telephone line and removes my phone number from their data base. Also available at Radio Shack.       > > Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ IMPORTANT NOTICE:The FBI has developed new technology to fight the Taliban and find Bin Ladin, using telecommunications...CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFORMATIONfrom Sector Eight            from Mike Sandman...Chicago's Telecom Expert The Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ MakesTelemarketers & Bill Collectors ThinkYour Phone Line Doesn't Exist! Within a week, you'll be able to sit down and eat dinner, without being disturbed by Telemarketers!Click here to hear a SIT tone. (45K)Put it in front of one or all your phones (and your answering machine), and it will play a SIT (Special Information Tone) whenever you or your answering machine answers your line. The SIT tone is the short "doo-doo-doo" sound you hear when you dial a disconnected number - before the recording says the line is disconnected.Telemarketers and Bill Collectors often use Predictive Dialers to dial outgoing calls. These are computers that keep dialing phone numbers on a list until they reach a live person. The Predictive Dialer then transfers that call to the first live operator. That's why you hear silence for a while before someone gets on the line, when you answer the phone sometimes. Some of them are bold enough to play a little recording asking you to "Please hold on for an important call!" Right.Telemarketers and Bill Collectors don't want to pay their operators to dial the phone and listen to busy signals and answering machines, so they have a computer do it for them. The Predictive Dialer is programmed to hang up if it hears a SIT tone, since it knows the line is disconnected. It doesn't listen to what's said after the SIT tone, since it doesn't understand words. The Telemarketer or Bill Collector often takes that number out of their database too, so it won't be called again!The Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ plays the SIT tone when you answer the phone. If it's a Predictive Dialer - the line will go dead. If it's a human, they'll hear the SIT tone and then hear you say "Hello" to answer the phone. Generally speaking, humans will ask you what that tone was, but they won't hang up. If you have an answering machine, delay your message for about 1.5 seconds to give the SIT tone time to play before you say "Hi, this is xxx..." The SIT tone will only be heard when you answer phones that are hooked up after the Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ There's an "IN" and an "OUT" jack - and it's line powered. If you want it to do play the SIT tone automatically when you answer any phone in the house or business, it needs to be connected where the line comes in before any phones or the phone system.Our customers keep calling us with the same remarkable stories...""It took about a week, but nobody's calling us at dinner time anymore!""We had a bill collector calling us every day for something we didn't owe (it was the phone company). We put the Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ on the line, and the calls stopped after only one day! Then the calls started coming in on our other line (we don't even give out that number). We got another Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ and put it on that line, and the calls stopped in one day again! It's amazing!"It worked in our own house! Donna was on every suckers list there is. We couldn't sit down at dinner time without the phone ringing like crazy. We couldn't sleep late on Saturdays. I finally put one in front of our phone system at the house, and after a week - the calls totally stopped! Get your own Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ Today! Only $34.95! 30 Day Moneyback GuaranteeDealer Pricing Available IMPORTANT NEWS... Sorry, this version of the Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢ has been discontinued due to a Patent dispute. A new version should be ready soon, but it'll be a little more expensive - and will require programming to avoid any legal trouble.It will start life as a programmable speed dialer, and will require some simple programming from a DTMF phone to make it generate a SIT tone (or any other tone you want) when the line is answered (or at any other time). That will get around the Patent claims, but it will require a little more effort on your part to install it.We've found that when our customer decides to buy the Telemarketer Stopper!â„¢, they're upset enough to do whatever it takes to get rid of the jerks that are bothering them, so we're going to make this new device.Check with our office at 630-980-7710, to see if it's available now.Part Number: CID6D   CallSaver: Disconnects a Phone Line that's Left Off Hook!If your child or pet has ever knocked a phone off the hook, and nobody could call you all day, CallSaver will hang up the phone for you!If your modem locked up and nobody could call you all day, CallSaver will hang up the phone for you!If your mother or grandmother has ever knocked their phone off the hook, and you couldn't call them all day, CallSaver will hang up the phone for them! It's like having someone checking your phone line for you, all the time! CallSaver disconnects the line when it hears the loud beep-beep-beep that the phone company uses to tell you to hang up your phone when you've left it off hook (called a "Howler"). The built-in ringer will alert you if you have a call while your phone has been automatically disconnected. When you finally hang up your phone, the CallSaver reconnects it automatically, and waits for the next time! CallSaver installs easily in front of a single phone, or you can install it in front of all of the phones or a phone system in the home or office (just make sure you can hear the built-in ringer which reminds you to hang up the line).Also works in front of phone systems, when the phone company doesn't provide a CPC Signal (Calling party Control) to release the call from hold or drop the voice mail when the outside party hangs up. CallSaver disconnects the line, which will cause the phone system to drop the line so it's ready for the next call (all happens automatically). Complete with A/C Adapter and Built-in Ringer Part Number: WAL3R   Price: $29.95  630-980-7710 Copyright © 2001 Mike Sandman Enterprises [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 6883 From: info gathering Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 10:21am Subject: RE: g.p.s. hideing places Hello Wes, A possible good hiding place might be right under the dashboard and close to your front windshield. Make sure that you place the antenna close to the top of the dashboard so that there is very little plastic between your antenna and the outside of the dashboard, as well make sure that the area your antenna is under is exposed to as much of your front windshield as possible in order to get a signal. The GPS signal can travel through the windshield no problem but the thickness of the plastic dashboard may hinder the signal. You'll have to test it due to different antennas being more sensative to the GPS signal than others. Try it and let me know if it works. Thanks Thorsten Kemper Electronic Engineering Consultant www.spaceleaf.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "wes mooty " Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 03:13:18 -0000 >could anyone offer any advice where on a truck or car a g.p.s. >tracking device mite be hidden.....preferable a 2001 f 150 ford pick >up....or how to test and see if one mite be attached to ones >truck...thanks in advance.. > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: >http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 6884 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 4:52pm Subject: Butt set to test POTS/ASDL without knocking out the ASDL portion of the circuit. Worth the read for the technical info if nothing else. Anyone wanting one can get it through me if you don't have an account with Tessco. http://www.tessco.com/knowledgetools/twj/new/news_88 Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 6885 From: Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 4:05am Subject: stalking by satellite worries experts MILWAUKEE (Feb. 6) - Connie Adams found it impossible to escape her ex-boyfriend. He would follow her as she drove to work or ran errands. He would inexplicably pull up next to her at stoplights and once tried to run her off the highway, authorities said. When he showed up at a bar she was visiting for the first time, on a date, Adams began to suspect Paul Seidler wasn't operating on instinct alone. He wasn't - Seidler had installed a satellite tracking device in Adams' car, according to police in Kenosha, Wis., 30 miles south of Milwaukee. ''He told me no matter where I went or what I did, he would know where I was,'' Adams testified at a recent court hearing. Police say Adams' case and several others across the country herald an incipient danger - high-tech stalking. Just as the global satellite positioning system can help save lives, so can its abuse endanger them, advocates of stalking victims say. ''As technology advances, it's going to be almost impossible for victims to flee and get to safety,'' said Cindy Southworth, director of technology at the National Network to End Domestic Violence in Washington. In the Adams case, Seidler pleaded innocent last month to felony counts of stalking, recklessly endangering safety, burglary and a misdemeanor count of disorderly conduct. His trial is pending. Adams does not want to speak to reporters about the case, said Susan Karaskiewicz, a Kenosha County prosecutor. Police say Seidler put a global positioning tracking device between the radiator and grill of Adams' car. Such gadgets use a constellation of Defense Department satellites to pinpoint location and can send their coordinates via cellular networks to wireless handsets or computers. Trucking companies use GPS systems to track of hazardous cargo and monitor drivers. Corrections authorities use them to monitor sex offenders. Hikers, boaters and motorists use GPS devices to keep from getting lost. GPS technology is also being built into cell phones to help emergency dispatchers find 911 callers. They're also being used to prevent car theft. Southworth trains victims advocates, law enforcement and prosecutors on stalkers' use of the technology, which she says is only just beginning to be abused. The Stalking Resource Center at the National Center for Victims of Crime has found at least one other case of a GPS system being used to stalk a victim. In it, a Colorado appeals court in July upheld Robert Sullivan's conviction for stalking his ex-wife and installing a GPS device in her car to track her movements. GPS is not the first technology to be misused by stalkers, who have also employed the Internet, microchip-sized cameras and even caller identification, said Southworth, though it is the most dangerous to date. Just as she once taught victims how to block caller ID when they use the phone, Southworth now suggests victims occasionally check under their car's hood. Police are also finding GPS devices useful. Marla Wagner, sales manager at L.A.S. Systems, the same McHenry, Ill.-based company that made Seidler's device, said the company has sold GPS systems to about 10 police departments during the last year. The Kenosha Police Department is also buying a system from L.A.S. Systems. Tracy Bahm, the Stalking Resource Center's director, said some states are working to update their stalking statutes to include the high-tech variety. The center typically advises states to keep their statutes broad enough to include technologies that don't yet exist. ''As society and technology evolve, stalkers will always find new ways to harass their victims,'' Bahm said. AP-NY-02-06-03 0202EST [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 6886 From: Ocean Group Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 11:04am Subject: Shuttle Article...Interesting... PRAVDA 18:12 2003-02-05 Authoritative Opinion: NASA Specialists Watched Columbia Start and Made Mistakes Editorial office of PRAVDA.Ru appealed to Senior Research Fellow at the U.S. Air Force Base (Eglin, Florida), former NASA member and former Soviet scientist Alexander Bolonkin for comments on the Columbia shuttle tragedy. - The death of seven astronauts (Husband, McCool, Ramon, Brown, Anderson, Clark and Chawla) shocked not only America. National mourning was also declared in Israel, as one of the perished was the first Israeli astronaut in the space crew. The catastrophe is also a tragedy for India, as an astronaut American of Indian origin, Chawla, was member of the crew as well. As soon as the demise of the shuttle was reported, several versions of the tragedy immediately arose, including the suggestion of a diversion, as Texas residents said they saw explosion of the shuttle. At present, when we know that temperature in the shuttle's left wing, and then inside the craft, suddenly rose several minutes before the catastrophe, the main version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the rocket's fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the left-wing heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. This was observed at the liftoff moment, but NASA specialists decided that the damage was insignificant and couldn't hamper return of the shuttle. Butt they were mistaken. As my experience shows, majority of NASA employees are engineers working there right after graduation from institutes or under the patronage of some influential persons. What is more, NASA's success is achieved not due to the greatness of the personnel, but because of US's large-scale financing of space explorations (it is 30 times more than total financing of the rest countries of the world spent on space exploration). But what could they do? It is impossible to repair a spaceship in the space. The flight program provides for no going out into the space and for no equipment necessary for repairing. The only thing that the astronauts realized was that the damage was considerable and they would be inevitably burnt down at approaching the Earth. Could any attempts be made to turn the spaceship back during the liftoff? But it took time to get information concerning damages on the shuttle and to analyze it; within this period of time the rocket already passed through the dense atmospheric bed, and the spaceship would have inevitably heated up during its return. By the way, contrary to the narrow-minded opinion introduced by journalists, spaceships get warm not because of friction on the air, but because they compress the air in front of them and the air may reach the temperature of about 2000 degrees. The tragedy occurred basically through the fault of the company Lockheed Martin, the producer of the thermal protection coating. Companies usually employ lower-paid uneducated emigrants for simple operations, it is frequent that technology compliance is neglected at that. Five Shuttles performed 113 space flights since the moment their exploitation started (April 1981), the Columbia shuttle made over 30 flights and it was the first spaceship of this series. Many defects were discovered over the exploitation period. But catastrophes never occurred when the shuttle got back from the space. The shuttle of Challenger also blew up during its liftoff in January 1986 and killed seven astronauts. Subcontractor of the Lockheed Martin company, Thiokol, was declared one of the party at fault of the catastrophe. Unlike Americans, all Soviet cosmonauts (Komarov on April 23, 1967; Dobrovolsky, Volkov and Patsayev on June 30, 1971) died when they were getting back to the Earth. The Communist party central committee was guilty of Komarov's death, as it categorically demanded that a space flight must be performed by May 1, the International Labour Day, although the spaceship was unfinished. The other three astronauts probably died because of the imperfection of the spaceship construction and the demand of the Communist party central committee to place three cosmonauts into a cockpit designed for one man. The shuttle has a thermal coating consisting of 24192 tiles and 3254 flexible isolation mats. The coating protects the shuttle from aerodynamic heating at orbiting and during descending. This coating is different on different areas and depends upon the thermal load of each sector. A composite of carbon and graphite with the heat resistance of up to 1650 degrees is the most heat-resistant material, it is used in the shuttle's fore body and in the front edge of wings. Fiber glass tiles protect the flank surfaces where the temperature may reach 650 degrees. Quartz fiber mats and felt mats guarantee thermal insulation of the shuttle from red-hot and vaporable tiles. The tiles are replaced after every flight. Probably, bad junction resulted in detachment of the tiles during the liftoff and during vibration. The fragment that crashed to the left wing of the shuttle at the 80th second of the flight weighed about one kilogram. Breaking of the fuel tank isolation occurred with this shuttle even earlier, in 1992. But damages were insignificant that time, that is why no tragedy occurred. What a pity that NASA didn't pay special attention to the problem! Many facts prove the version saying that the catastrophe occurred because of damages in the thermal insulation. Sensors of the hydraulic system burnt down in the shuttle's left wing several minutes before the catastrophe, pressure transducers burnt down in the chassis, then the temperature in the middle trunk suddenly increased. It is highly likely that hot gases penetrated there. The shuttle started losing its path and the airborne computer attempted to adjust the path. But the high temperature didn't reach the crew immediately, as the astronauts reported no temperature increase. The shuttle was destroyed instantly. The demises of the two shuttles of the five ones (Challenger and Columbia) will seriously undermine the US Space Exploration program and especially the program of the International Space Station. Supply of the International Space Station with essential goods and saving of the astronauts in emergency situations are to become a real problem because of this loss. I worked in NASA when a life-saving craft X-33 was developed and I observed its tests. However, this program is not completed yet, and it is not clear when it will be finished. Some time ago NASA budget was curtailed. The NASA leadership fired five members of the Aerospace Security Council and two consultants for their criticism. One more employee left the service himself as he disagreed with the NASA leadership's position. Unfortunately, the practice of persecution of people criticizing the agency's programs and policy is widely used in NASA. Space exploration inevitably entails victims. Such is the way of any progress, and humanity must pay this price if we want to become masters of the nature and live better and longer. And this price is insignificant as compared with human losses in wars, or as a result of diseases, crimes and terrorism. The knowledge we obtain, science, new technologies have radically changed our life and turned us into masters of the Earth. It is actually very important to learn the lessons of every catastrophe, try to avoid making the same mistakes, to reduce the number of human victims; we must always remember those heroes who sacrificed their lives for the sake of new knowledge and for progress of humanity. I am sure that Americans will never forget the heroes of the space, take care of their families and children. It's a pity that Russia, former Soviet republics never commemorate anniversaries of astronauts' deaths. When cosmonauts were officially spoken about, only the dates of their flights are mentioned, but nobody ever says how the flights ended. The above mentioned Soviet cosmonauts died because of the Communist party central committee that pursued new records. Twenty one cosmonauts tragically died over the whole period of the space era. In order to reduce the death probability among cosmonauts, I offer to equip shuttles with a small thermal protection cockpit with a parachute so that astronauts could take shelter there in emergency situations. The size and weight of shuttles allow to build in such cockpits. Picture: Alexander Bolonkin Alexander Bolonkin Doctor of Technical Science, Former NASA senior research fellow Special to PRAVDA.Ru USA Translated by Maria Gousseva 6887 From: Thomas Habets Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 9:08am Subject: Re: Shuttle Article...Interesting... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments below. (there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) On Thursday 06 February 2003 18:04, Ocean Group wrote: > the main > version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the rocket's > fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the left-wing > heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. The NASA version is that FOAM came off and smashed against the wing. A thermal protection tile would NEVER break apart like in the video seen on CNN and such (would it? I'm not a rocket scientist. But they did say it was foam). > This was observed at the liftoff > moment, but NASA specialists decided that the damage was insignificant and > couldn't hamper return of the shuttle. Butt they were mistaken. How does this person know this? NASA *still* says this wasn't the cause. - ------ Shuttle program manager Ronald Dittemore told reporters today they were, in effect, mistaken if they assumed from previous briefings the Columbia disaster investigation was focused primarily on the possibility foam debris from the ship's external tank triggered the orbiter's destruction during entry Saturday [... ] "As I mentioned before, we're trying to find the missing link and as you focus your attention on the debris, we're focusing our attention on what we didn't see. We believe there's something else. And that's why we're doing a fault tree analysis and that's why we're investigating every area. Right now, it just doesn't make sense to us that a piece of (foam) debris could be the root cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew. It's got to be another reason." [...] "So it's something else. It's something else." - ------- http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030205foam/ http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/status.html > As my > experience shows, majority of NASA employees are engineers working there > right after graduation from institutes or under the patronage of some > influential persons. This is just nasty. If I remember correctly about 80% of the people working on the Apollo program were under 30, and all three Apollo 11 astronauts were exactly 30. As a man under 30 myself, I take offense to this comment. Yes, It'd be great if they all were thousand-year-old wisards, but this is insulting. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into this. > What is more, NASA's success is achieved not due to > the greatness of the personnel, but because of US's large-scale financing > of space explorations (it is 30 times more than total financing of the rest > countries of the world spent on space exploration). Now money sends people into space? Bah. > The only thing that the astronauts > realized was that the damage was considerable and they would be inevitably > burnt down at approaching the Earth. Uhm... then why was everyone so surprised? > The tragedy occurred basically through the fault of the company Lockheed > Martin, Thank you. Now everyone can drop their investigations. This person obviously knows what caused the accident. Shut down NASA too, this person can probably send people to Mars as well. What is it with the tradition of first finding someone to blame, and then finding out what happened? > Breaking of > the fuel tank isolation occurred with this shuttle even earlier, in 1992. > But damages were insignificant that time, that is why no tragedy occurred. > What a pity that NASA didn't pay special attention to the problem! I'm sure they ignored it. They sure paid attention to it when foam came off the fuel tank last time, which was two trips ago for Columbia. - --------- typedef struct me_s { char name[] = { "Thomas Habets" }; char email[] = { "thomas@h..." }; char kernel[] = { "Linux 2.4" }; char *pgpKey[] = { "http://www.habets.pp.se/pubkey.txt" }; char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE 0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" }; char coolcmd[] = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" }; } me_t; -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+Q8vnKGrpCq1I6FQRArEnAKDEPuaBs3CzeVeKXl6EDnx7OWVWMACgz7/O CiJGbTPdjZyRH2FYe0wz51I= =jAYM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 6888 From: Matt Paulsen Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 9:10pm Subject: RE: Shuttle Article...Interesting... FUD. Just factor in who's agenda you're reading from. ------ >This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments below. >(there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) 6889 From: Matt Paulsen Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 9:28pm Subject: new pacific northwest group to begin meeting and emailing There is a new group forming for Pacific Northwest area medical services to discuss infosec/warfare, bioterrorism/counterterrorism response/avoidance, etc. technical services/attacks/defenses/etc. Region of coverage is OR, WA, ID, northern CA. Currently there are 16 area organizations and the list is growing quickly. Most likely this group will begin presentations at the local infragard chapters and other appropriate locations when things start drumming up as well as applying these results nationally, regionally and locally through various federal/state/local authorities along with coordinated efforts with private and public commercial and/or non-profit organizations. If you have an interest in understanding/attending and directing these non-strategic meetings to discuss tactical implementations of applied technologies please contact me offline and I will review and forward to appropriate contacts to talk about it with you. You must be a full time employee for a state/federal/regional government relating to disaster service - planning/avoidance/etc. - ie: VA, FBI, DoE, DoD, etc., commercial or non-profit organization that relates to medical services - hospitals that service critical care/emergency care, patient transit services - ambulatory, flight, JHACO employees, etc. and/or emergency response services - fire & rescue/police/etc., or national disaster planning / avoidance - DoD, VA, homeland security, etc, and actively work as a chief security officer, network supervisor/security supervisor, disaster planning coordinator or other appropriately termed title, and control the direction of technology within your organization, not just implement it. Thanks for your time. Matt 6890 From: Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:07pm Subject: Re: Shuttle Article...Interesting... are you Swedish? (re: your email addy)... that might explain your willingness to believe what the government tells us. if the government is found to be at fault, the cause will likely be classified and sealed. they will prepare something false to tell the media. of course, the media is the worse source for reliable information. this Russian scientist is in a good position to tell his opinion - he worked at NASA, knows the politics and government coverups, plus he is a Russian in Russia, not likely to be thrown in a US jail for exposing a coverup. he has a very strong nation behind him as well. i know the Lockheed part about hiring imigrants for cheap pay is true. see: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/spotlight/minority_employer.html hee hee, they make slavery sound like a virtue :) On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 4:08pm, Thomas Habets wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments > below. > (there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) > > On Thursday 06 February 2003 18:04, Ocean Group wrote: > > > the main > > version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the > rocket's > > fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the > left-wing > > heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. > > The NASA version is that FOAM came off and smashed against the wing. > A thermal protection tile would NEVER break apart like in the video seen > on > CNN and such (would it? I'm not a rocket scientist. But they did say it > was > foam). > > > This was observed at the liftoff > > moment, but NASA specialists decided that the damage was insignificant > and > > couldn't hamper return of the shuttle. Butt they were mistaken. > > How does this person know this? NASA *still* says this wasn't the cause. > - ------ > Shuttle program manager Ronald Dittemore told reporters today they were, > in > effect, mistaken if they assumed from previous briefings the Columbia > disaster investigation was focused primarily on the possibility foam > debris > from the ship's external tank triggered the orbiter's destruction during > entry Saturday [... ] > "As I mentioned before, we're trying to find the missing link and as you > focus your attention on the debris, we're focusing our attention on what > we > didn't see. We believe there's something else. And that's why we're doing > a > fault tree analysis and that's why we're investigating every area. Right > now, > it just doesn't make sense to us that a piece of (foam) debris could be > the > root cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew. It's got to be another > reason." > [...] > "So it's something else. It's something else." > - ------- > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030205foam/ > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/status.html > > > As my > > experience shows, majority of NASA employees are engineers working > there > > right after graduation from institutes or under the patronage of some > > influential persons. > > This is just nasty. If I remember correctly about 80% of the people > working > on the Apollo program were under 30, and all three Apollo 11 astronauts > were > exactly 30. As a man under 30 myself, I take offense to this comment. > Yes, > It'd be great if they all were thousand-year-old wisards, but this is > insulting. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into this. > > > What is more, NASA's success is achieved not due to > > the greatness of the personnel, but because of US's large-scale > financing > > of space explorations (it is 30 times more than total financing of the > rest > > countries of the world spent on space exploration). > > Now money sends people into space? Bah. > > > The only thing that the astronauts > > realized was that the damage was considerable and they would be > inevitably > > burnt down at approaching the Earth. > > Uhm... then why was everyone so surprised? > > > The tragedy occurred basically through the fault of the company > Lockheed > > Martin, > > Thank you. Now everyone can drop their investigations. This person > obviously > knows what caused the accident. Shut down NASA too, this person can > probably > send people to Mars as well. > > What is it with the tradition of first finding someone to blame, and then > finding out what happened? > > > Breaking of > > the fuel tank isolation occurred with this shuttle even earlier, in > 1992. > > But damages were insignificant that time, that is why no tragedy > occurred. > > What a pity that NASA didn't pay special attention to the problem! > > I'm sure they ignored it. > They sure paid attention to it when foam came off the fuel tank last > time, > which was two trips ago for Columbia. > > - --------- > typedef struct me_s { > char name[] = { "Thomas Habets" }; > char email[] = { "thomas@h..." }; > char kernel[] = { "Linux 2.4" }; > char *pgpKey[] = { "http://www.habets.pp.se/pubkey.txt" }; > char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE 0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" }; > char coolcmd[] = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" }; > } me_t; > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE+Q8vnKGrpCq1I6FQRArEnAKDEPuaBs3CzeVeKXl6EDnx7OWVWMACgz7/O > CiJGbTPdjZyRH2FYe0wz51I= > =jAYM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > 6891 From: infospy Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 8:20am Subject: Re: Shuttle Article...Interesting... Anyone that watched the first news conference from NASA, and then listened to the news casters, had to wonder if they were at the same meeting. \ JMHO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Habets" To: "Ocean Group" ; "TSCM Group" Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Shuttle Article...Interesting... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments below. > (there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) > > On Thursday 06 February 2003 18:04, Ocean Group wrote: > > > the main > > version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the rocket's > > fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the left-wing > > heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. > > The NASA version is that FOAM came off and smashed against the wing. > A thermal protection tile would NEVER break apart like in the video seen on > CNN and such (would it? I'm not a rocket scientist. But they did say it was > foam). > > > This was observed at the liftoff > > moment, but NASA specialists decided that the damage was insignificant and > > couldn't hamper return of the shuttle. Butt they were mistaken. > > How does this person know this? NASA *still* says this wasn't the cause. > - ------ > Shuttle program manager Ronald Dittemore told reporters today they were, in > effect, mistaken if they assumed from previous briefings the Columbia > disaster investigation was focused primarily on the possibility foam debris > from the ship's external tank triggered the orbiter's destruction during > entry Saturday [... ] > "As I mentioned before, we're trying to find the missing link and as you > focus your attention on the debris, we're focusing our attention on what we > didn't see. We believe there's something else. And that's why we're doing a > fault tree analysis and that's why we're investigating every area. Right now, > it just doesn't make sense to us that a piece of (foam) debris could be the > root cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew. It's got to be another > reason." > [...] > "So it's something else. It's something else." > - ------- > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030205foam/ > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/status.html > > > As my > > experience shows, majority of NASA employees are engineers working there > > right after graduation from institutes or under the patronage of some > > influential persons. > > This is just nasty. If I remember correctly about 80% of the people working > on the Apollo program were under 30, and all three Apollo 11 astronauts were > exactly 30. As a man under 30 myself, I take offense to this comment. Yes, > It'd be great if they all were thousand-year-old wisards, but this is > insulting. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into this. > > > What is more, NASA's success is achieved not due to > > the greatness of the personnel, but because of US's large-scale financing > > of space explorations (it is 30 times more than total financing of the rest > > countries of the world spent on space exploration). > > Now money sends people into space? Bah. > > > The only thing that the astronauts > > realized was that the damage was considerable and they would be inevitably > > burnt down at approaching the Earth. > > Uhm... then why was everyone so surprised? > > > The tragedy occurred basically through the fault of the company Lockheed > > Martin, > > Thank you. Now everyone can drop their investigations. This person obviously > knows what caused the accident. Shut down NASA too, this person can probably > send people to Mars as well. > > What is it with the tradition of first finding someone to blame, and then > finding out what happened? > > > Breaking of > > the fuel tank isolation occurred with this shuttle even earlier, in 1992. > > But damages were insignificant that time, that is why no tragedy occurred. > > What a pity that NASA didn't pay special attention to the problem! > > I'm sure they ignored it. > They sure paid attention to it when foam came off the fuel tank last time, > which was two trips ago for Columbia. > > - --------- > typedef struct me_s { > char name[] = { "Thomas Habets" }; > char email[] = { "thomas@h..." }; > char kernel[] = { "Linux 2.4" }; > char *pgpKey[] = { "http://www.habets.pp.se/pubkey.txt" }; > char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE 0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" }; > char coolcmd[] = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" }; > } me_t; > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE+Q8vnKGrpCq1I6FQRArEnAKDEPuaBs3CzeVeKXl6EDnx7OWVWMACgz7/O > CiJGbTPdjZyRH2FYe0wz51I= > =jAYM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 6892 From: Ocean Group Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 8:29am Subject: RE: Shuttle Article...Interesting... Good point...to be honest I think I'd rather wait for the official NASA explanation. The article was also translated so some liberties could have been taken. But there's too many technical inaccuracies in the article for the author that maintains he knows something about it all. Regards Vance Deran Ocean Group, Technical Security Division, Ireland. ____________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:10:22 -0800 From: "Matt Paulsen" Subject: RE: Shuttle Article...Interesting... FUD. Just factor in who's agenda you're reading from. ------ >This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments below. >(there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) ________________________________________________________________________ 6893 From: A.Lizard Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 3:18pm Subject: YOU may have an affected computer Note: for the kind of info most of us will be most interested in, google for the Gary Headlee site referenced in the article. While I generally wouldn't post a computer story to this list, any of us might have an affected computer and the great majority of us are capable of doing the indicated repair, if this is done before the motherboard power filter caps blow up. Also note that some motherboard manufacturers are trying to handle this problem via legal threats made against anyone who discusses their defective products. I'd like to know who those manufacturers are so that I will NEVER buy any of their products. A.Lizard http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/resource/feb03/ncap.html Thu 06 Feb 03 17:52 1600 GMT Home >>News & Analysis FAULTS & FAILURES Leaking Capacitors Muck up Motherboards Finger-pointing and fury as manufacturers try to dodge blame It has all the elements of a good thriller: a stolen secret formula, bungled corporate espionage, untraceable goods, and lone wolves saving the little guy from the misdeeds of multinational corporations. In this case, a mistake in the stolen formulation of the electrolyte in a capacitor has wrecked hundreds of PCs and may wreck still more in what is an industrywide problem. Aluminum electrolytic capacitors with a low equivalent series resistance (ESR) are high-capacitance components that generally serve to smooth out the power supply to chips. Throughout 2002, they have been breaking open and failing in certain desktop PCs. Motherboard and PC makers contacted by IEEE Spectrum have stopped using the faulty parts, but because the parts can fail over a period of several months, more such failures are expected. So far, the only motherboard maker to admit to the problem is ABIT Computer Corp. (Taipei), and the only major PC maker to acknowledge being affected is IBM Corp. But the problem is likely to be more widespread. Indeed, those who have repaired the damaged boards say that they have encountered crippled motherboards from Micro-Star International, ASUSTek Computer, Gigabyte Technology, and others. For Gary Headlee, who repairs electronics in Midvale, Utah, the trouble surfaced at the end of 2001, when users of PCs with ABIT motherboards began to complain of leaking capacitors. Headlee's solution was to replace all the low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors of 1000 microfarads or over. By last summer he was receiving as many as 10 broken boards through the mail every day, and he estimates he has fixed 1200 boards so far. At about the same time, Carey Holzman, who builds and sells custom PCs, noticed the identical problem in non-ABIT computers he had sold and others he was asked to repair [see photo]. In 12 years of PC repair, "I've never seen anything like it," says Holzman, owner of Computer Performance Specialists (Glendale, Ariz.). It is clear now that a faulty electrolyte is to blame for the burst capacitors. The mystery is: where did it come from and which manufacturers used it? Citing Japanese sources, initial reports claimed that major Taiwanese capacitor firms, including the island's market leaders, Lelon Electronics Corp. and Luxon Electronics Corp., had turned out faulty products. But both companies have denied the accusations. Most of the leaking capacitors pulled from bad boards in the United States, according to repair people, were labeled Tayeh, not a brand affiliated with known capacitor makers. Many others were unmarked. Some, however, did bear the trademarks of Taiwanese passive components firms such as Jackcon Capacitor Electronics Co. (Taipei). Jackcon claims that it has been out of the motherboard market for two years but received some complaints from U.S. consumers in 2002. John Ko, its managing director, blames the motherboard design and remains confident in the quality of Jackcon products. According to Ko, the company's low-ESR capacitors passed quality tests at the Industrial Technology Research Institute (Hsinchu, Taiwan), a nonprofit R&D organization partly funded by the Ministry of Economic Affairs (Taipei), which is also often the source of Taiwanese firms' electrolyte formulas. What happened? The origins of the motherboard malaise seem a lesson in how not to commit corporate espionage. A well-placed source in Taiwan, who did not wish to be identified, largely confirmed for Spectrum accounts published in the United States that were based on sources in the Japanese electronics industry. According to the source, a scientist stole the formula for an electrolyte from his employer in Japan and began using it himself at the Chinese branch of a Taiwanese electrolyte manufacturer. He or his colleagues then sold the formula to an electrolyte maker in Taiwan, which began producing it for Taiwanese and possibly other capacitor firms. Unfortunately, the formula as sold was incomplete. "It didn't have the right additives," says Dennis Zogbi, publisher of Passive Component Industry magazine (Cary, N.C.), which broke the story last fall. According to Zogbi's sources, the capacitors made from the formula become unstable when charged, generating hydrogen gas, bursting, and letting the electrolyte leak onto the circuit board. Zogbi cites tests by Japanese manufacturers that indicate the capacitor's lifetimes are half or less of the 4000 hours of continuous ripple current they are rated for. Electronics makers are ordinarily very careful about capacitor quality. "The large volumes of passive content in any electronic device means that you have that many more chances for a product to fail," says Zogbi, who also runs The Paumanok Group (Cary, N.C.), a market analysis firm focused on the passive components industry. Electronics firms generally supply their manufacturers with a list of parts and materials they can use from suppliers whose quality they trust. Zogbi suspects that, in an effort to cut costs, contract manufacturers used dodgy component sources that were not on the approved list. Major Taiwanese capacitor makers have vigorously denied having made any bad components, but the crisis has had a chilling effect on the island's whole industry, which produces 30 percent of the world's aluminum electrolytic capacitors. "Many buyers refused to maintain their relationship with Taiwanese firms," says Francis Tsai, spokesman for Luxon Electronics (Taipei), the second-largest aluminum electrolytic capacitor maker in Taiwan. ABIT, which is arguably the hardest hit, now is going to Japan for its capacitors. Exploding capacitors blow the lid off a case of intellectual property theft in the electronics industry The effect on Lien Yan (Taichung, Taiwan), the company accused of buying the stolen formula and selling the faulty electrolyte, has been just as devastating. The firm has vehemently denied the accusations, but it has lost 30 percent of its orders since the problems came to light, says C.H. Lee, a manager at Lien Yan. The company normally produces more than 60 tons of electrolyte monthly for customers in Taiwan, China, and Japan. Currently, Lee says, orders are only from small local firms. Lien Yan and Taiwanese capacitor makers claim they are the victims of a smear campaign by Japanese competitors who are saying that all Taiwanese capacitor makers are tainted. The price ratio of Japanese products to Taiwanese was about four to one, according to Lee, and Japanese firms may be trying to win back lost market share. Lien Yan's Lee says that Japanese customers who stopped buying from his company even showed the firm internal documents written in Japanese that state that any relationship with Lien Yan would lead to boycotts on the part of the Japanese firm's customers. (The notices often misspelled Lien Yan as "Lein Yan" or "Lenyan.") "After checking all names of [capacitor] companies accused by Japanese companies, we discovered that almost all had never purchased our products," Lien Yan said in a statement. Soldering in silence While Taiwanese passives makers are trying to shore up relations with their customers, some of the computer firms affected are doing the same. ABIT says it will replace or fix defective boards its customers send it. IBM says it alerted those customers it believes are most likely to be affected and is handling repairs under warranty. Other manufacturers have been less helpful. As Gary Headlee's capacitor replacement side business grew, he began receiving damaged boards built by other companies besides ABIT. But when he posted the list of other boards on his Web site, he received letters from lawyers representing two manufacturers, prompting him to pull the posting. Carey Holzman, as a builder of custom PCs, has been trying to raise awareness about the defects since last spring. He thinks manufacturers should be more public about the problem and issue a recall. "Main board replacement is a big job. It's a huge amount of downtime for the user," he says. Failures can also occur after the warranty has expired, he points out. "The manufacturers should do the right thing." ­Yu-Tzu Chiu (Taipei) & Samuel K. Moore PHOTO: CAREY HOLZMAN Home | Search | Table of Contents | IEEE Job Site | Advertising | Top Copyright | Terms & Conditions | Privacy & Security | Subscription Problems | Contact URL: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org (Modified: 31 January 2003) ************************************************************************ member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild. "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." Benjamin Franklin Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard business Website http://reptilelabs.com backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard@C... PGP 7.0.3 key available by request,keyserver,or on my Web site Download PGP from http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy. PGPfone v2.1 available for secure voice conferencing, get your own (W9x,NT,Mac) at http://www.pgpi.org/products/nai/pgpfone/ Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html ************************************************************************ 6894 From: infospy Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 9:12pm Subject: Re: Shuttle Article...Interesting... I'm not any kind of specialist in this field. However "Thiokol," was not "declared one of the party at fault of the catastrophe". Thiokol manufactured the product. Thiokol notified NASA before the liftoff that it was out of bounds. >the main version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the >rocket's fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the left->wing heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. I do not believe the fuel tank has any tiles on it. It's covered with a Styrofoam type material. Other things in this report don't ring right with me. If it had not been authored by person with such a background I would look at as "trolling" on some news group. I'll wait for the report form them that know (?) before I decide. Howard Phillips N.E.W. Security Service ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Habets" To: "Ocean Group" ; "TSCM Group" Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Shuttle Article...Interesting... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments below. > (there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) > > On Thursday 06 February 2003 18:04, Ocean Group wrote: > > > the main > > version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the rocket's > > fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the left-wing > > heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. > > The NASA version is that FOAM came off and smashed against the wing. > A thermal protection tile would NEVER break apart like in the video seen on > CNN and such (would it? I'm not a rocket scientist. But they did say it was > foam). > > > This was observed at the liftoff > > moment, but NASA specialists decided that the damage was insignificant and > > couldn't hamper return of the shuttle. Butt they were mistaken. > > How does this person know this? NASA *still* says this wasn't the cause. > - ------ > Shuttle program manager Ronald Dittemore told reporters today they were, in > effect, mistaken if they assumed from previous briefings the Columbia > disaster investigation was focused primarily on the possibility foam debris > from the ship's external tank triggered the orbiter's destruction during > entry Saturday [... ] > "As I mentioned before, we're trying to find the missing link and as you > focus your attention on the debris, we're focusing our attention on what we > didn't see. We believe there's something else. And that's why we're doing a > fault tree analysis and that's why we're investigating every area. Right now, > it just doesn't make sense to us that a piece of (foam) debris could be the > root cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew. It's got to be another > reason." > [...] > "So it's something else. It's something else." > - ------- > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030205foam/ > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/status.html > > > As my > > experience shows, majority of NASA employees are engineers working there > > right after graduation from institutes or under the patronage of some > > influential persons. > > This is just nasty. If I remember correctly about 80% of the people working > on the Apollo program were under 30, and all three Apollo 11 astronauts were > exactly 30. As a man under 30 myself, I take offense to this comment. Yes, > It'd be great if they all were thousand-year-old wisards, but this is > insulting. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into this. > > > What is more, NASA's success is achieved not due to > > the greatness of the personnel, but because of US's large-scale financing > > of space explorations (it is 30 times more than total financing of the rest > > countries of the world spent on space exploration). > > Now money sends people into space? Bah. > > > The only thing that the astronauts > > realized was that the damage was considerable and they would be inevitably > > burnt down at approaching the Earth. > > Uhm... then why was everyone so surprised? > > > The tragedy occurred basically through the fault of the company Lockheed > > Martin, > > Thank you. Now everyone can drop their investigations. This person obviously > knows what caused the accident. Shut down NASA too, this person can probably > send people to Mars as well. > > What is it with the tradition of first finding someone to blame, and then > finding out what happened? > > > Breaking of > > the fuel tank isolation occurred with this shuttle even earlier, in 1992. > > But damages were insignificant that time, that is why no tragedy occurred. > > What a pity that NASA didn't pay special attention to the problem! > > I'm sure they ignored it. > They sure paid attention to it when foam came off the fuel tank last time, > which was two trips ago for Columbia. > > - --------- > typedef struct me_s { > char name[] = { "Thomas Habets" }; > char email[] = { "thomas@h..." }; > char kernel[] = { "Linux 2.4" }; > char *pgpKey[] = { "http://www.habets.pp.se/pubkey.txt" }; > char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE 0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" }; > char coolcmd[] = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" }; > } me_t; > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE+Q8vnKGrpCq1I6FQRArEnAKDEPuaBs3CzeVeKXl6EDnx7OWVWMACgz7/O > CiJGbTPdjZyRH2FYe0wz51I= > =jAYM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 6895 From: A.Lizard Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 4:35pm Subject: Re: Shuttle Article...Interesting... At 11:19 AM 2/8/03 +0000, you wrote: Personally, I prefer the Pravda piece to the tribute articles that talk about the bravery of the astronauts and not the failure of will at a national level that put them into an ancient deathtrap to begin with. At least they're willing to suggest that there may be an organizational / management problems. There is NOTHING sacred about NASA. The most important question to ask about the shuttle disaster is: WHY are we putting people into space in a Shuttle older than the average public transit bus? If the politicians and the public aren't willing to spend the cash to buy safer replacements based on current technology, the government has no right to ask people, no matter how brave, dedicated, and willing to spend their lives to make up the difference. If we aren't ready to build better space transportation than a shuttle designed around the best 1970s technology, the manned space program should be shut down and nations willing to spend the money to buy the talent needed to make a manned space program work right should take over the lead. However, the competition is already at work, China's already planning a manned space venture. It may well be that when you can buy tickets at your local travel agency for a vacation or your next job somewhere up there, the tickets will be printed in Chinese. Or in Indian. Or maybe the European Union will get its act together. While there are *no* safe forms of transportation, we've been putting people into orbit for over 40 years. How long was it between the Wright Brothers' first flight and the DC-3? Technology has moved a lot faster between 1960 and 2000 than it did between 1963 and 2003. A ride into earth orbit should be comparable in safety to a commercial airliner ride. Perhaps if NASA were using vehicles based on 40 years experience with orbital transportation and not 10, orbital flights would in fact be safe and routine. The place for the present Shuttle fleet is in the National Air & Space Museum, not in the air. Kids should see the shuttles besides Mercury and Gemini and Apollo and wonder at the bravery of people who actually would climb into those things and fly them into space. BTW, space.com says that the Feds are planning to keep the Shuttle fleet in use until 2025. So we can look forward to either our astronauts returning to earth in carbonized chunks or the public shutting down the space program. Allegations of NASA program mismanagement from ex-insiders: Dian Hardison http://www.counterpunch.org/hardison02012003.html Don Nelson http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,887236,00.html An interesting upper atmosphere electrical discharge phenomena that's the dark horse candidate for proximate cause of shuttle destruction: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/02/07/MN200326.DTL While the investigation should certainly continue to improve the safety of aviation (the Shuttle broke up in the upper atmosphere), I think we *all* know the primary cause and who's to blame. A.Lizard >Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:08:16 +0100 > From: Thomas Habets >Subject: Re: Shuttle Article...Interesting... > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > > >This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments below. >(there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) > >On Thursday 06 February 2003 18:04, Ocean Group wrote: > > > the main > > version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the rocket's > > fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the left-wing > > heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. > >The NASA version is that FOAM came off and smashed against the wing. >A thermal protection tile would NEVER break apart like in the video seen on >CNN and such (would it? I'm not a rocket scientist. But they did say it was >foam). > > > This was observed at the liftoff > > moment, but NASA specialists decided that the damage was insignificant and > > couldn't hamper return of the shuttle. Butt they were mistaken. > >How does this person know this? NASA *still* says this wasn't the cause. >- ------ >Shuttle program manager Ronald Dittemore told reporters today they were, in >effect, mistaken if they assumed from previous briefings the Columbia >disaster investigation was focused primarily on the possibility foam debris >from the ship's external tank triggered the orbiter's destruction during >entry Saturday [... ] >"As I mentioned before, we're trying to find the missing link and as you >focus your attention on the debris, we're focusing our attention on what we >didn't see. We believe there's something else. And that's why we're doing a >fault tree analysis and that's why we're investigating every area. Right now, >it just doesn't make sense to us that a piece of (foam) debris could be the >root cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew. It's got to be another >reason." >[...] >"So it's something else. It's something else." >- ------- >http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030205foam/ >http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/status.html > > > As my > > experience shows, majority of NASA employees are engineers working there > > right after graduation from institutes or under the patronage of some > > influential persons. > >This is just nasty. If I remember correctly about 80% of the people working >on the Apollo program were under 30, and all three Apollo 11 astronauts were >exactly 30. As a man under 30 myself, I take offense to this comment. Yes, >It'd be great if they all were thousand-year-old wisards, but this is >insulting. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into this. > > > What is more, NASA's success is achieved not due to > > the greatness of the personnel, but because of US's large-scale financing > > of space explorations (it is 30 times more than total financing of the rest > > countries of the world spent on space exploration). > >Now money sends people into space? Bah. > > > The only thing that the astronauts > > realized was that the damage was considerable and they would be inevitably > > burnt down at approaching the Earth. > >Uhm... then why was everyone so surprised? > > > The tragedy occurred basically through the fault of the company Lockheed > > Martin, > >Thank you. Now everyone can drop their investigations. This person obviously >knows what caused the accident. Shut down NASA too, this person can probably >send people to Mars as well. > >What is it with the tradition of first finding someone to blame, and then >finding out what happened? > > > Breaking of > > the fuel tank isolation occurred with this shuttle even earlier, in 1992. > > But damages were insignificant that time, that is why no tragedy occurred. > > What a pity that NASA didn't pay special attention to the problem! > >I'm sure they ignored it. >They sure paid attention to it when foam came off the fuel tank last time, >which was two trips ago for Columbia. > >- --------- >typedef struct me_s { > char name[] = { "Thomas Habets" }; > char email[] = { "thomas@h..." }; > char kernel[] = { "Linux 2.4" }; > char *pgpKey[] = { "http://www.habets.pp.se/pubkey.txt" }; > char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE 0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" }; > char coolcmd[] = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" }; >} me_t; > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > >iD8DBQE+Q8vnKGrpCq1I6FQRArEnAKDEPuaBs3CzeVeKXl6EDnx7OWVWMACgz7/O >CiJGbTPdjZyRH2FYe0wz51I= >=jAYM >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ************************************************************************ member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild. "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." Benjamin Franklin Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard business Website http://reptilelabs.com backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard@C... PGP 7.0.3 key available by request,keyserver,or on my Web site Download PGP from http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy. PGPfone v2.1 available for secure voice conferencing, get your own (W9x,NT,Mac) at http://www.pgpi.org/products/nai/pgpfone/ Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html ************************************************************************ 6896 From: Andre Holmes <1ach@g...> Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 11:04am Subject: Carolines Modulation Curves! - Ross Revenge Greetings I was tuning my SA and ran across some modulations that I never seen before, so I started surveying some mod-schemes heres a start of my search. ANDRE HOLMES http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/tx/scope.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 6897 From: Mitch D Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:01pm Subject: Organic Antenna Interesting site about research done by a "HAM" on using a tree for a vhf/uhf antenna. http://www.qsl.net/kf4bwg/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com 6898 From: Michael Puchol Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:38am Subject: Re: Shuttle Article...Interesting... (off-topic) I recommend to those interested reading these two documents: http://www.nasa.gov/formedia/MP_risk_tiles_1994.pdf and http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/investigation/tps_safety.pdf which cover the risk and risk management in the ceramic tiles which protect the shuttle from reentry heat. In my oppinion, the piece of foam (carbon reinforced, bear this in mind - this is not just simple styrofoam like we get in takeaway coffees) was large enough to cause one or more tiles to detach from the wing. The point of maximum aerodynamic stress for the shuttle during launch is at 60 seconds, and the piece of foam hit at 80 seconds, meaning that the shuttle was accelerating at an enormous rate. Not knowing the weight of the debris I can't calculate the impact force it would have hit with (although NASA stated that their engineers calculated that it wasn't enough to cause serious damage), but it would be an enourmous force in any case. Since the ceramic tiles are hard but extremely brittle (try it with a normal ceramic tile like the ones used to pave homes, they don't differ that much in strenght as those in the shuttle, a very light impact will crack them), I cannot see how they still refuse to see the obvious. The Columbia (and other shuttles) have suffered from total or partial ceramic tile failure in past flight. It isn't so uncommon to be hit by debris, and not only coming from the shuttle, but space debris, for example. Another test you can do at home to see the difference in impact-bearing capacity by a structure under stress or not, is to grab a small lenght of thin plastic like from a rubbish bag or similar, hold each end in one hand, and leave it lax. Get someone to (gently) stab at it with a pointy object, like a screwdriver - it won't be easy to cut or break. Now, try applying tension to the plastic, pulling your hands away from each other - it will be cut in two by a gentle prod of the sharp object. The shuttle's surfaces 80 seconds after launch were in similar stress conditions as the tensed plastic. During reentry, it's not only heat but extreme aerodynamic forces that affect the shuttle, thus if we couple a few missing tiles with extreme heat capable of melting the underlying aluminium alloys, plus forces high enough to crush a damaged structure, a catastrophic failure doesn't seem too impossible under the circumstances. I do believe however that the mission profile was such that it didn't allow for a different course of action, such as travelling to the ISS to use as a lifeboat, or arranging for a spacewalk to fix the tiles (they didn't have either a MMS or spares and tools), which meant that they could only hope nothing happened. But it did. Spaceflight is risky, the extremes encountered in any mission are only overcome by excellent engineering, and better manufacturing processes - the best that can be done is analyze the problem, determine it's cause, and fix it, finger pointing and told-you-so won't acomplish anything. Regards, and sorry about the off-topic. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "infospy" To: "TSCM Group" Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Shuttle Article...Interesting... > I'm not any kind of specialist in this field. However "Thiokol," was not > "declared one of the party at fault of the catastrophe". Thiokol > manufactured the product. Thiokol notified NASA before the liftoff that it > was out of bounds. > > >the main version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the > >rocket's fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the > left->wing heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. > > I do not believe the fuel tank has any tiles on it. It's covered with a > Styrofoam type material. > > Other things in this report don't ring right with me. If it had not been > authored by person with such a background I would look at as "trolling" on > some news group. > > I'll wait for the report form them that know (?) before I decide. > > Howard Phillips > N.E.W. Security Service > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Habets" > To: "Ocean Group" ; "TSCM Group" > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:08 AM > Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Shuttle Article...Interesting... > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > This is the worst article on the subject I've seen yet. See comments > below. > > (there are other minor flaws I chose not to comment on) > > > > On Thursday 06 February 2003 18:04, Ocean Group wrote: > > > > > the main > > > version of the tragedy says that a thermal protection tile of the > rocket's > > > fuel tank was lost during liftoff, then it hit the nose of the left-wing > > > heat-resisting covering and destroyed it. > > > > The NASA version is that FOAM came off and smashed against the wing. > > A thermal protection tile would NEVER break apart like in the video seen > on > > CNN and such (would it? I'm not a rocket scientist. But they did say it > was > > foam). > > > > > This was observed at the liftoff > > > moment, but NASA specialists decided that the damage was insignificant > and > > > couldn't hamper return of the shuttle. Butt they were mistaken. > > > > How does this person know this? NASA *still* says this wasn't the cause. > > - ------ > > Shuttle program manager Ronald Dittemore told reporters today they were, > in > > effect, mistaken if they assumed from previous briefings the Columbia > > disaster investigation was focused primarily on the possibility foam > debris > > from the ship's external tank triggered the orbiter's destruction during > > entry Saturday [... ] > > "As I mentioned before, we're trying to find the missing link and as you > > focus your attention on the debris, we're focusing our attention on what > we > > didn't see. We believe there's something else. And that's why we're doing > a > > fault tree analysis and that's why we're investigating every area. Right > now, > > it just doesn't make sense to us that a piece of (foam) debris could be > the > > root cause of the loss of Columbia and its crew. It's got to be another > > reason." > > [...] > > "So it's something else. It's something else." > > - ------- > > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030205foam/ > > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/status.html > > > > > As my > > > experience shows, majority of NASA employees are engineers working there > > > right after graduation from institutes or under the patronage of some > > > influential persons. > > > > This is just nasty. If I remember correctly about 80% of the people > working > > on the Apollo program were under 30, and all three Apollo 11 astronauts > were > > exactly 30. As a man under 30 myself, I take offense to this comment. Yes, > > It'd be great if they all were thousand-year-old wisards, but this is > > insulting. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into this. > > > > > What is more, NASA's success is achieved not due to > > > the greatness of the personnel, but because of US's large-scale > financing > > > of space explorations (it is 30 times more than total financing of the > rest > > > countries of the world spent on space exploration). > > > > Now money sends people into space? Bah. > > > > > The only thing that the astronauts > > > realized was that the damage was considerable and they would be > inevitably > > > burnt down at approaching the Earth. > > > > Uhm... then why was everyone so surprised? > > > > > The tragedy occurred basically through the fault of the company Lockheed > > > Martin, > > > > Thank you. Now everyone can drop their investigations. This person > obviously > > knows what caused the accident. Shut down NASA too, this person can > probably > > send people to Mars as well. > > > > What is it with the tradition of first finding someone to blame, and then > > finding out what happened? > > > > > Breaking of > > > the fuel tank isolation occurred with this shuttle even earlier, in > 1992. > > > But damages were insignificant that time, that is why no tragedy > occurred. > > > What a pity that NASA didn't pay special attention to the problem! > > > > I'm sure they ignored it. > > They sure paid attention to it when foam came off the fuel tank last time, > > which was two trips ago for Columbia. > > > > - --------- > > typedef struct me_s { > > char name[] = { "Thomas Habets" }; > > char email[] = { "thomas@h..." }; > > char kernel[] = { "Linux 2.4" }; > > char *pgpKey[] = { "http://www.habets.pp.se/pubkey.txt" }; > > char pgp[] = { "A8A3 D1DD 4AE0 8467 7FDE 0945 286A E90A AD48 E854" }; > > char coolcmd[] = { "echo '. ./_&. ./_'>_;. ./_" }; > > } me_t; > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > > > iD8DBQE+Q8vnKGrpCq1I6FQRArEnAKDEPuaBs3CzeVeKXl6EDnx7OWVWMACgz7/O > > CiJGbTPdjZyRH2FYe0wz51I= > > =jAYM > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > =================================================== TSKS > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > 6899 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:59am Subject: Re: Unknown modulation On 9 Feb 2003 at 12:04, Andre Holmes wrote: > I was tuning my SA and ran across some modulations that I never seen > before, so I started surveying some mod-schemes heres a start of my > search. Do you live near: 1)An AM radio broadcast station? 2)A ham radio operator (within a block or two?). You frequently can identify them by towers and large directional antennas. 3)A CB operator maybe running illegal high power? Or within a few hundred feet of one running legal power? What you have described from the other website is signals from a pure textbook AM transmitter. I listed above the most likely sources, but there can be others. Do you hear anything when you try to demodulate the signal? That will tell you for sure what it is. If it sounds like Donald Duck, it's single sideband which most likely would be CB or amateur (ham). What you are seeing is the 'modulation envelope'. Straight out of the textbook. Extremely unlikely to be hostile transmissions. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 6900 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:23am Subject: Lunatic on this list - AONN Back in late December, the following lunatic posted the below message to this list: =========== AccessOneNetworkNorthwest AONNRecords Date: Thu Dec 26, 2002 1:12 pm Subject: Op We have formed a new multiagency CT task force which is currently open only to active U.S. government personnel. If you are qualified and would like to get involved please call 206.666.8070. There is always someone in our office 247, therefore you may call at any time. Also, the TSCM moderator has been contacted and provided the Congressional summary in .pdf format for those interested. I can't guarantee that the file will be provided to you by the list owner, as we simply thought that we would at least try to make it available in that way. This project involves the highest conceivable level of what the TSCM group exercises. =========== This person, who falsely claimed to be a government agent and representing a government agency, had called my office asking for some information I perceived as sensitive, and he didn't seem legit. Neither did his website. I made a contact report to the local FBI field office near him, and he was quietly taken down. Here are some details: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-983384.html This gentleman still is trying to pry sensitive information out of certain members of this list. Those members tend to be among the more savvy, and are not being fooled. If Robert Taylor or anyone claiming to represent DSIN or AONN contacts you, be aware the person and agency is fraudulent. It would not be wise to discuss anything of substance with him. Mr. Taylor has been removed from this list, but he may have changed his profile and resubscribed. We don't know and don't care. He's been exposed as a con artist. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 6901 From: William Knowles Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:51am Subject: AONN, R.L. Taylor III bio and photo Hello all! The new site for AONN since their .gov was pulled is this... http://www.dsispecialaccess.net/ I understand that any time someone had a question about AONN, they would shoot off a 122 page .PDF file, I would love a copy if anyone recieved this from them. Robert L. Taylor or R.L. Taylor is quite a character, with a bio the reads like its off the cDc's webpage... http://www.flash.net/~manniac/corp2.htm [...] What many folks don't realize is this is the same kid who in 1977 was in a special program for 2 year olds to learn Franklin computer architecture at Everett High School and similar programs at other institutions of academia. This is the same kid who subsequently began to design supercomputers at age 2 and a half, had his whole school curriculum and grading system faked, and whose father is a sociologist, military investigations retired, and mother a communications intelligence officer retired supposedly. This kid is no geek. This is the same track star, gymnast, marksman, video game champion who confidential sources indicate was somehow granted an assassination clearance. This is the same kid who when everyone else seemed to be sleeping, predicted within two weeks prior to September 11, 2001, that an attack would soon take place; the same kid who in a recent press release, expressed to the Bush Administration as well as reporters... [...] There's also a brief bio that's a little more tamer than above with a picture at: http://www.pcnetexpress.com/PCNE_HR/robertt_p.html Additional links on Robert L. Taylor III http://www.manhunt.com/features/html/89.shtml http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/07/HNmysterysite_1.html You have to wonder how long he thought he could have pulled this caper off before getting caught. Cheers! William Knowles wk@c... *==============================================================* "Communications without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communications is irrelevant." Gen Alfred. M. Gray, USMC ================================================================ C4I.org - Computer Security, & Intelligence - http://www.c4i.org *==============================================================* 6902 From: kondrak Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:21pm Subject: Re: Re: Unknown modulation I believe the tipoff is the 135% negative modulation. Its broadcast AM. Ot someone trying awfully hard to sound broadcast, er.."quality".. At 10:59 2/10/03 -0500, you wrote: >On 9 Feb 2003 at 12:04, Andre Holmes wrote: > > > I was tuning my SA and ran across some modulations that I never seen > > before, so I started surveying some mod-schemes heres a start of my > > search. > >Do you live near: > >1) An AM radio broadcast station? > >2) A ham radio operator (within a block or two?). You frequently can >identify them by towers and large directional antennas. > >3) A CB operator maybe running illegal high power? Or within a few >hundred feet of one running legal power? > >What you have described from the other website is signals from a pure >textbook AM transmitter. I listed above the most likely sources, but >there can be others. > >Do you hear anything when you try to demodulate the signal? That will >tell you for sure what it is. If it sounds like Donald Duck, it's >single sideband which most likely would be CB or amateur (ham). > >What you are seeing is the 'modulation envelope'. Straight out of the >textbook. > >Extremely unlikely to be hostile transmissions. > >Steve > > >******************************************************************* >Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) >Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip >mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com >tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 >"In God we trust, all others we monitor" >******************************************************************* > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS