From: Tim Johnson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 8:21am Subject: Re: Regarding the hoopla about the OSCOR Software Maybe your friend should step forward and make his case himself. Or stop complaining. Secondhand information is hearsay at best and is questionable when one is trying to gather information for any purpose, whether it be for a criminal investigation or a civil problem. At this point, it is an uncivil problem.....you are able to cast your friends stones and he/she is protected by a veil of secrecy. Reading between the lines, I'd venture to say that your friend is relatively new in the business and attended the school in an effort to learn how to operate the equipment and to brush up on the basics. If it were important, I could probably find out his/her name with little problem as i had a friend attend the most recent class and probably had an acquaintance attend the class before that (another friend attended the advanced class back in the summer). I'm sure they would remember anyone who had a computer problem as it would have disrupted the teaching process. Then again, if your friend doesn't want to identify himself/herself here, then he/she probably went in as James Bond by using an alias. Does he/she have the background that would make operating, and most importantly, understanding what is going on with the equipment? I have about a dozen sweeps behind me now and am still learning something every time i go out. But, I go out with the attitude that I'm going to learn something new on each job. At least, when I stay awake, I do. When I feel that I've learned all there is to know about TSCM, I'll be ready to retire. After all Those who can do. Those who can't teach. Those who can do neither administrate. At this point your friend sounds very much like a soft mouthed administrator. Before you jump down my throat, I'm just a bystander trying to find out what might have caused a problem. But unless your friend comes out of the closet and personally states his case, I'm considering the subject closed and will only post to factual comments from this point on. As I'm sure most of the other TSCMers will probably do. And, I'd look closely at my friendship if I was you; a real friend doesn't subject a friend to possible ridicule or use them to bitch about something; they thank their friend for supporting them in their publicly stated problem. Remember the words of Albert Camus....Those who write clearly have readers, those who write obscurely have commentators. So far, we have only been able to comment on your writings (in the stead of your "friend"). Tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10953 From: joe joe Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 9:18am Subject: Re: Regarding the hoopla about the OSCOR Software uhh first off Tim my freind is not a newcomer and was familiar with the equipment( it is funny because you said you will be attending a class soon, are you a newcomer?), secondly i belive he has told REI when he was there, and third of all i believe he will email Thomas, either today or tomorrow , maybe you should stop hanging off the nuts of REI..it doesn't suit anyone to be a nuthugger!..if you continue responding to this i will continue, so squash it now --- Tim Johnson wrote: > Maybe your friend should step forward and make his > case himself. Or > stop complaining. Secondhand information is hearsay > at best and is > questionable when one is trying to gather > information for any > purpose, whether it be for a criminal investigation > or a civil > problem. At this point, it is an uncivil > problem.....you are able to > cast your friends stones and he/she is protected by > a veil of secrecy. > > Reading between the lines, I'd venture to say that > your friend is > relatively new in the business and attended the > school in an effort > to learn how to operate the equipment and to brush > up on the basics. > If it were important, I could probably find out > his/her name with > little problem as i had a friend attend the most > recent class and > probably had an acquaintance attend the class before > that (another > friend attended the advanced class back in the > summer). I'm sure they > would remember anyone who had a computer problem as > it would have > disrupted the teaching process. Then again, if your > friend doesn't > want to identify himself/herself here, then he/she > probably went in > as James Bond by using an alias. Does he/she have > the background > that would make operating, and most importantly, > understanding what > is going on with the equipment? I have about a dozen > sweeps behind me > now and am still learning something every time i go > out. But, I go > out with the attitude that I'm going to learn > something new on each > job. At least, when I stay awake, I do. When > I feel that I've > learned all there is to know about TSCM, I'll be > ready to retire. > After all > Those who can do. > Those who can't teach. > Those who can do neither administrate. > > At this point your friend sounds very much like a > soft mouthed administrator. > > Before you jump down my throat, I'm just a bystander > trying to find > out what might have caused a problem. But unless > your friend comes > out of the closet and personally states his case, > I'm considering the > subject closed and will only post to factual > comments from this point > on. As I'm sure most of the other TSCMers will > probably do. > > And, I'd look closely at my friendship if I was you; > a real friend > doesn't subject a friend to possible ridicule or use > them to bitch > about something; they thank their friend for > supporting them in their > publicly stated problem. Remember the words of > Albert Camus....Those > who write clearly have readers, those who write > obscurely have > commentators. So far, we have only been able to > comment on your > writings (in the stead of your "friend"). > > Tim > -- > > Tim Johnson > > Technical Security Consultants Inc. > PO Box 1295 > Carrollton, GA 30112 > 770-836-4898 > 770-712-2164 Cell > > What you say in private is your business. Keeping it > private is ours. > > Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security > Consultants Inc. > MemberINTELNET > Espionage Research Institute > Association of Former Office of Special > Investigations > Special Agents-Technical Agent > http://www.dbugman.com > > This e-mail is intended for the use of the > addressee(s) only and may > contain privileged confidential, or proprietary > information that is > exempt from disclosure under law. If you have > received this message > in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, > then delete the > e-mail and destroy any printed copy. > > Neither this information block, the typed name of > the sender, or > anything else in this message is intended to > constitute an electronic > signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic > Transactions Act or > the Electronic Signatures in Global and National > Commerce Act > (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary > is included in > this message. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 10954 From: Tim Johnson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 9:57am Subject: Re: Regarding the hoopla about the OSCOR Software MY, My. Such language. But, you should look carefully at what you wrote. I don't think I have touted REI in any way; nothing about their equipment being superior to, or inferior to others. I have only suggested there is a lack of communication on the part of your friend. As for the "nuthugging", stand back and look at what you are doing. Your friend is totally protected by you from any effort to educate him or to assist him with his problem. He's letting you take my small amount of input while everyone else is reading our missives and chuckling about one of us being only partially armed (could be me, hmmmm). I'm just doing what you are doing, responding from a point of ignorance to a possible problem. If I knew more perhaps i could respond to problems rather than to your and your "friends" mudslinging. Step up, state the problem and ask for assistance; even with the animosity your friend has probably generated within REI, I doubt that they are the kind to hold it against him. They're professionals; professionals seek assistance to a problem. I'm trying to help find a solution to a problem (as I'm sure REI will do). You and your "friend" are hiding the problem. But, maybe my responses have had the desired effect. Your friend should have taken the problem to the source in the beginning rather than having you act as his mouthpiece. If your friend has a problem it can't be fixed until he addresses it in such a way as to have it looked at step by step. It is better that he contact REI directly than to cry in the dark. Maybe now, something can be done about it. And yes, I'm a relative newcomer. I try to get as much training as I can as i know my limitations. And, I'll be attending their advanced classes if i can sneak a rubber check in on them when they aren't looking. My attitude is that once I stop learning, I'm of no use to anyone anymore. I hope I never reach the point of a lot of people I know in this business that feel they have seen it all and there is nothing more to learn. And, if I run into a problem I've found it is better to address it with the people involved rather than run around crying about something they aren't aware of. I'm unhappy; they're unaware and everyone else has to listen to complaining. Speaking of newcomers, are you a debugger or just a mouthpiece? So far, you haven't been speaking from a position of experience (at least, from my limited point of view) , just relaying hearsay from your "friend". Do you have the experience with computers, software and the OSCOR to be able to discuss the problem with him and try to find out what the problem is? What you (he/she) should be doing is posting the problems encountered, step by step, and asking those on the TSCM-L list if they have had the same problem and what, if anything, they did to clear it up. With that said, be careful with your response. People no longer have any doubts as to whether I'm a fool or not. They know it for a fact. You may still have them wondering. Tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10955 From: joe joe Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 10:08am Subject: Re: Regarding the hoopla about the OSCOR Software hey Tim you attacked the kind of freinds i keep, that was a low blow so i reacted, yes i do protect my freinds if needed but this is not the case you attacked me, so just stop, as for REI they DO know there are problems and it is up to them to fix them, not for you to come here and judge the kinds of freinds people keep, my buddy will contact REI like i said, and if you do know some people that were in the class in the last few weeks ask them they might have been there when those problems arose at their facility and then all speculation of " is the software bugged or not" could be laid to rest, until you get that info from your aquintances that were there stop it, REI are giving out a software that is basically in beta testing because it has software flaws to it, and this is MY opinion NOT my freinds , although he may say worse thanks --- Tim Johnson wrote: > MY, My. Such language. But, you should look > carefully at what you > wrote. I don't think I have touted REI in any way; > nothing about > their equipment being superior to, or inferior to > others. I have only > suggested there is a lack of communication on the > part of your > friend. As for the "nuthugging", stand back and look > at what you are > doing. Your friend is totally protected by you from > any effort to > educate him or to assist him with his problem. He's > letting you take > my small amount of input while everyone else is > reading our missives > and chuckling about one of us being only partially > armed (could be > me, hmmmm). I'm just doing what you are doing, > responding from a > point of ignorance to a possible problem. If I knew > more perhaps i > could respond to problems rather than to your and > your "friends" > mudslinging. Step up, state the problem and ask for > assistance; even > with the animosity your friend has probably > generated within REI, I > doubt that they are the kind to hold it against him. > They're > professionals; professionals seek assistance to a > problem. I'm trying > to help find a solution to a problem (as I'm sure > REI will do). You > and your "friend" are hiding the problem. > > But, maybe my responses have had the desired effect. > Your friend > should have taken the problem to the source in the > beginning rather > than having you act as his mouthpiece. If your > friend has a problem > it can't be fixed until he addresses it in such a > way as to have it > looked at step by step. It is better that he contact > REI directly > than to cry in the dark. Maybe now, something can be > done about it. > > And yes, I'm a relative newcomer. I try to get as > much training as I > can as i know my limitations. And, I'll be attending > their advanced > classes if i can sneak a rubber check in on them > when they aren't > looking. My attitude is that once I stop learning, > I'm of no use to > anyone anymore. I hope I never reach the point of a > lot of people I > know in this business that feel they have seen it > all and there is > nothing more to learn. > > And, if I run into a problem I've found it is better > to address it > with the people involved rather than run around > crying about > something they aren't aware of. I'm unhappy; they're > unaware and > everyone else has to listen to complaining. > > Speaking of newcomers, are you a debugger or just a > mouthpiece? So > far, you haven't been speaking from a position of > experience (at > least, from my limited point of view) , just > relaying hearsay from > your "friend". Do you have the experience with > computers, software > and the OSCOR to be able to discuss the problem with > him and try to > find out what the problem is? What you (he/she) > should be doing is > posting the problems encountered, step by step, and > asking those on > the TSCM-L list if they have had the same problem > and what, if > anything, they did to clear it up. > > With that said, be careful with your response. > People no longer have > any doubts as to whether I'm a fool or not. They > know it for a fact. > You may still have them wondering. > > Tim > -- > > Tim Johnson > > Technical Security Consultants Inc. > PO Box 1295 > Carrollton, GA 30112 > 770-836-4898 > 770-712-2164 Cell > > What you say in private is your business. Keeping it > private is ours. > > Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security > Consultants Inc. > MemberINTELNET > Espionage Research Institute > Association of Former Office of Special > Investigations > Special Agents-Technical Agent > http://www.dbugman.com > > This e-mail is intended for the use of the > addressee(s) only and may > contain privileged confidential, or proprietary > information that is > exempt from disclosure under law. If you have > received this message > in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, > then delete the > e-mail and destroy any printed copy. > > Neither this information block, the typed name of > the sender, or > anything else in this message is intended to > constitute an electronic > signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic > Transactions Act or > the Electronic Signatures in Global and National > Commerce Act > (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary > is included in > this message. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 10956 From: Tim Johnson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 11:30am Subject: Re: Regarding the hoopla about the OSCOR Software JOE JOE, You are letting your emotions get in the way of objectivity. You have to decide who your friends are. What you do for them is your business. My friend who attended the class responded very quickly to my inquiry. As there were two classes, which did your friend attend? There didn't seem to be any complaints in the first three day session consisting of about 15 people from across the globe. Mainly, the equipment was demonstrated on the last day and if there were concerns they were voiced one on one. In the 5 day session, there were fewer attendees. There was problems with the software on some of the computers. From my understanding, Chris called the software developer into the classroom and he took notes regarding the problems. I believe he told the attendees that the software was Beta, that they were experiencing problems with stability, and that REI is addressing the problems little by little as they arise and fixes are made. Apparently, discussions were very polite and REI's attitude was very correct and polite. One reason for your friends attitude may be one of communication. If your friend was an American, he may have an attitude problem; if he was from one of the foreign countries he might not have understood what was going on. And with that I'll go back to one of my original premises....if your friend doesn't like the software all the has to do it turn the computer off and wait patiently for a more stable version to come along. If his arm isn't in a sling i doubt that they forced him to download it or continue to use it. I've learned that if something works, even if it is only partially effective, it is better than the alternative of not having it at all. I'm sure REI is working to correct the problems. After all, they have a very good reputation that I'm sure they don't want to have tarnished. Heck, if your friend is unhappy with the 5.0 version, I'm sure REI would be glad to return him to his previous version. He has a choice, all he has to do is voice it. Now, joe joe, read the following very carefully: Beta program. Beta program. Free Beta program. Free Beta program. Betas testing. Beta testing. What that means is it is there for you to try out and to provide feedback on. It is in the development stage. Development means it probably has problems and the developers want to know what those are from the Beta testers. Beta testing is a good thing if you are willing to share any problems you encounter. Beta testing is a bad thing if you hide your candle (problems) under a bushel basked and cry in the dark. Share. Always share. I have known the people at REI for a good long time. I have always had the highest respect for their integrity and desire to make a product that is both useful, easy to operate and not a checkbook buster and to continually refine or improve on them. My only real complaint over the years I have been familiar with the OSCOR has been one in which the signal is presented digitally rather than in an analog mode. It is a point that we joke about when we run across each other and it wouldn't surprise me to have them one day contact me and say, We listened. We'd like for you to Beta test our analog display. I also consider some of them to be more than business acquaintances, but not quite closest of friends. We're still in the touchy-feel area. But, we are still working on it. Professionally, we support each other by me making comments on their equipment and them by listening and implementing my suggestions (if they aren't stupid to the point of being absurd). Anyhow, I'm glad your friend is going to approach the problem from a face-to-face point of view rather than having you sling arrows for him. If I can be of any little assistance in the future, (Nothing to do with computers or software) don't hesitate to contact me. And finally, your opinion has absolutely no weight in the matter unless you want to address the problem from a personal perspective. You have an opinion, as do I. And we both have a** holes, but they don't necessarily need to be made public. But, for what it is worth, I have enjoyed debating the problem with you. I hope you will take the time to re-read our correspondences and try to understand I haven't been attacking you specifically. It was your mysterious friend for not having the intestinal fortitude to personally voice his concerns. Most of the people on groups like this are there to try to help others when they are experiencing a problem. Well, most of them are. Some are just wanna-bee's, like me. Tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10957 From: Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 11:06am Subject: Re: Oscor Gentlemen, I appreciate a prompt comment of REI concerning OSCOR. In some respect we are fortunate enough of hearing direct from the vendor. It could never happen be Siemens, Rockwel, Honeywell, Rohde&Schwarz etc. etc. involved. Their ignorance is well documented. However some REI statements are surprising. 1. They released beta version of software... THEY SOLD A PRODUCT WITH FAULT FUNCTIONALITY. That is. No matter what language we speak. 2. REI claims that OSCOR was designed for Burst transmission TSCM.... THE OSCOR IS NOT CAPABLE OF CATCHING BURST TRANSMISSIONS. As every serial sweep type receiver. Try to make a full sweep and note how long the receiver needs to complete it. In this regard OSCOR is not worse than, say Rockwell 95S1A or R&S EB200 or Cubic 3400 or any other serial sweep receiver. Probably OSCOR could catch a 15 minutes burst but not a 300 milliseconds as it would be the case with a hardware keystroke logger. Catching burst transmissions requires time domain receiver in combination with a powerful FFT analyzer, a system like Scenario Flex. 3. Regarding video. Video with 150 KHz bandwidth? Most probably REI engineers has forgotten Nyquist Theorem. I know Oscor was not designed to watching movies, but I also know that the receiverīs bandwidth is not wide enough to lock into Frequency modulated video synchro signal. I am speaking of Oscor produced in 2004, not 1995. I could go further, but it is not my intention to insult REI, or OSCOR owners and Oscor lovers. The overall system performance is good for its price. If someone has $400,000.00 to invest in a different system, Oscor is not an option. But Oscor is worth its price and undoubtedly can help in TSCM work. No system can everything. Oscor is not an exeption. Regards, A.W. DEMTEC@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 04/02/2005 23:59:37 GMT Standard Time, >hawkspirit@e... writes: > > > > >I did a sweep in the past few years in which I detected a burst bug sending >out short duration pulse bursts. After the client saw my results he hired a >second sweep team to come in and confirm my findings. They brought an Oscor >and it would not receive and display this short pulse wave transmission. >Missed the boat completely! > >Roger > >HYPERLINK "http://www.bugsweeps.com/"www.bugsweeps.com > > > > > > >Roger I take it that you used a Spectrum Analyser on your original sweep >when you detected the Burst device >Regards Dave > >David McGauley >TSCM [Technical Surveillance and Countermeasures] >Electronic Surveillance and Sweep Specialist >Electrical/Electronics Engineer ex Police >Demtec House >Ormskirk >Lancs L390HF >UK >01695558544 >07866206112 >demtec@a..._ www.demtec.co.uk_ (http://www.demtec.co.uk/) > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp 10958 From: joe joe Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 11:44am Subject: Re: Regarding the hoopla about the OSCOR Software hey Tim i told you stop it because YOU are making this bigger than it is..my freind is an american but does NOT have an attitude, there you go again judging the people i have contact with, and yes my opinion counts in this matter because i do believe that it is not a good peice of software, again my opinion, if you don't like it you could object to it and that is fine but opinions is what makes america a wonderful place, we don't live in a communist country, like i said he will contact TOM so you could stop your ranting about freinds or anything else because it is getting rather childish, also i am glad that your freind that was in the second class told you there were problems, obviously he was honest( gee only you could have great freinds, haha) also if it is a beta than they shouldn't be selling it, end of story, don't say it is free because it is just added to the price of the upgrade, Tim again stop this bickering and i hope that my buddy and Tom fix this , so you really don't have to go out of your way to prove if the software has bugs or not, IT HAS BE PROVEN THERE ARE SO EVERYTHING CAN END RIGHT HERE! --- Tim Johnson wrote: > JOE JOE, > > You are letting your emotions get in the way of > objectivity. You have > to decide who your friends are. What you do for them > is your business. > > My friend who attended the class responded very > quickly to my > inquiry. As there were two classes, which did your > friend attend? > There didn't seem to be any complaints in the first > three day session > consisting of about 15 people from across the globe. > Mainly, the > equipment was demonstrated on the last day and if > there were concerns > they were voiced one on one. > > In the 5 day session, there were fewer attendees. > There was problems > with the software on some of the computers. From my > understanding, > Chris called the software developer into the > classroom and he took > notes regarding the problems. I believe he told the > attendees that > the software was Beta, that they were experiencing > problems with > stability, and that REI is addressing the problems > little by little > as they arise and fixes are made. Apparently, > discussions were very > polite and REI's attitude was very correct and > polite. > > One reason for your friends attitude may be one of > communication. If > your friend was an American, he may have an attitude > problem; if he > was from one of the foreign countries he might not > have understood > what was going on. > > And with that I'll go back to one of my original > premises....if your > friend doesn't like the software all the has to do > it turn the > computer off and wait patiently for a more stable > version to come > along. If his arm isn't in a sling i doubt that they > forced him to > download it or continue to use it. I've learned > that if something > works, even if it is only partially effective, it is > better than the > alternative of not having it at all. I'm sure REI > is working to > correct the problems. After all, they have a very > good reputation > that I'm sure they don't want to have tarnished. > > Heck, if your friend is unhappy with the 5.0 > version, I'm sure REI > would be glad to return him to his previous version. > He has a choice, > all he has to do is voice it. > > Now, joe joe, read the following very carefully: > > Beta program. Beta program. > Free Beta program. Free Beta program. > Betas testing. Beta testing. > > What that means is it is there for you to try out > and to provide > feedback on. It is in the development stage. > Development means it > probably has problems and the developers want to > know what those are > from the Beta testers. Beta testing is a good thing > if you are > willing to share any problems you encounter. Beta > testing is a bad > thing if you hide your > candle (problems) under a bushel basked and cry in > the dark. > > Share. Always share. > > I have known the people at REI for a good long time. > I have always > had the highest respect for their integrity and > desire to make a > product that is both useful, easy to operate and not > a checkbook > buster and to continually refine or improve on them. > My only real > complaint over the years I have been familiar with > the OSCOR has been > one in which the signal is presented digitally > rather than in an > analog mode. It is a point that we joke about when > we run across each > other and it wouldn't surprise me to have them one > day contact me and > say, We listened. We'd like for you to Beta test our > analog display. > I also consider some of them to be more than > business acquaintances, > but not quite closest of friends. We're still in the > touchy-feel > area. But, we are still working on it. > Professionally, we support > each other by me making comments on their equipment > and them by > listening and implementing my suggestions (if they > aren't stupid to > the point of being absurd). > > Anyhow, I'm glad your friend is going to approach > the problem from a > face-to-face point of view rather than having you > sling arrows for > him. If I can be of any little assistance in the > future, (Nothing to > do with computers or software) don't hesitate to > contact me. > > And finally, your opinion has absolutely no weight > in the matter > unless you want to address the problem from a > personal perspective. > You have an opinion, as do I. And we both have a** > holes, but they > don't necessarily need to be made public. But, for > what it is worth, > I have enjoyed debating the problem with you. I hope > you will take > the time to re-read our correspondences and try to > understand I > haven't been attacking you specifically. It was your > mysterious > friend for not having the intestinal fortitude to > personally voice > his concerns. Most of the people on groups like this > are there to try > to help others when they are experiencing a problem. > Well, most of > them are. Some are just wanna-bee's, like me. > > Tim > > -- > > Tim Johnson > > Technical Security Consultants Inc. > PO Box 1295 > Carrollton, GA 30112 > 770-836-4898 > 770-712-2164 Cell > > What you say in private is your business. Keeping it > private is ours. > > Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security > Consultants Inc. > MemberINTELNET > Espionage Research Institute > Association of Former Office of Special > Investigations > Special Agents-Technical Agent > http://www.dbugman.com > > This e-mail is intended for the use of the > addressee(s) only and may > contain privileged confidential, or proprietary > information that is > exempt from disclosure under law. If you have > received this message > in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, > then delete the > e-mail and destroy any printed copy. > > Neither this information block, the typed name of > the sender, or > anything else in this message is intended to > constitute an electronic > signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic > Transactions Act or > the Electronic Signatures in Global and National > Commerce Act > (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary > is included in > this message. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 10959 From: joe joe Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 11:50am Subject: Re: Oscor i do agree with you on certain aspects but as with any piece of hardware , when doing a sweep we must stay as long as possible to catch every signal and threat we can, example if you only stay 10 hours and the burst signal didn't fire then any peice of hardware wouldn't catch it( although other hardware could find it ex: non-lin, thermal, x-ray if you could paint all walls and objects, lol ), but if you stay 24 hours your chances would be much greater, including with the oscor --- Tensor66B@n... wrote: > > Gentlemen, > > I appreciate a prompt comment of REI concerning > OSCOR. In some respect we are fortunate enough of > hearing direct from the vendor. It could never > happen be Siemens, Rockwel, Honeywell, Rohde&Schwarz > etc. etc. involved. Their ignorance is well > documented. > > However some REI statements are surprising. > > 1. They released beta version of software... THEY > SOLD A PRODUCT WITH > FAULT FUNCTIONALITY. That is. No matter what > language we speak. > > 2. REI claims that OSCOR was designed for Burst > transmission TSCM.... > THE OSCOR IS NOT CAPABLE OF CATCHING BURST > TRANSMISSIONS. As every serial sweep type receiver. > Try to make a full sweep and note how long the > receiver needs to complete it. In this regard OSCOR > is not worse than, say Rockwell 95S1A or R&S EB200 > or Cubic 3400 or any other serial sweep receiver. > Probably OSCOR could catch a 15 minutes burst but > not a 300 milliseconds as it would be the case with > a hardware keystroke logger. Catching burst > transmissions requires time domain receiver in > combination with a powerful FFT analyzer, a system > like Scenario Flex. > > 3. Regarding video. Video with 150 KHz bandwidth? > Most probably > REI engineers has forgotten Nyquist Theorem. I know > Oscor was not designed to watching movies, but I > also know that the receiverīs bandwidth is not > wide enough to lock into Frequency modulated video > synchro signal. > I am speaking of Oscor produced in 2004, not 1995. > > I could go further, but it is not my intention to > insult REI, or OSCOR > owners and Oscor lovers. The overall system > performance is good for > its price. If someone has $400,000.00 to invest in a > different system, > Oscor is not an option. But Oscor is worth its price > and > undoubtedly can help in TSCM work. No system can > everything. Oscor > is not an exeption. > > Regards, > A.W. > > > > DEMTEC@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > In a message dated 04/02/2005 23:59:37 GMT Standard > Time, > >hawkspirit@e... writes: > > > > > > > > > >I did a sweep in the past few years in which I > detected a burst bug sending > >out short duration pulse bursts. After the client > saw my results he hired a > >second sweep team to come in and confirm my > findings. They brought an Oscor > >and it would not receive and display this short > pulse wave transmission. > >Missed the boat completely! > > > >Roger > > > >HYPERLINK > "http://www.bugsweeps.com/"www.bugsweeps.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Roger I take it that you used a Spectrum Analyser > on your original sweep > >when you detected the Burst device > >Regards Dave > > > >David McGauley > >TSCM [Technical Surveillance and Countermeasures] > >Electronic Surveillance and Sweep Specialist > >Electrical/Electronics Engineer ex Police > >Demtec House > >Ormskirk > >Lancs L390HF > >UK > >01695558544 > >07866206112 > >demtec@a..._ www.demtec.co.uk_ > (http://www.demtec.co.uk/) > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > >=================================================== > TSKS > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those > annoying pop-ups. > Download now at > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 10960 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 1:13pm Subject: List Statistics List membership has stabilized over 1230 active subscribers and due to it's size I really don't keep track of who is behind which Yahoo, Hotmail, AOL, or related accounts. The actual list membership is closer to 1300 members, but at any given moment at least 50-75 list members are bouncing for a variety of reasons, but half of these clear in 24-48 hours (1230 + 75/2 = 1268). Additionally, I know that a number of the list addresses are actually "exploders" where a post sent to that addresses is copied or exploded out to a number of additional (hidden) email addresses. One such exploder account has 130+ additional subscribers behind one such account, another exploder has 25+ subscribers behind another one in England, and so on. As close as I can tell we have at least a number or such accounts where the list goes to 300 exploded additional accounts (this gives use a subscriber base of something close to 1600 or so). Quite a few list members forward copies of the daily digest to others in their organizations via a hard copy format instead of an email version, and a number of subscribers include the daily posts in their in-house daily or weekly security briefings. As a rule a newsletter, magazine, or any piece of material is actually read by many times the actual number of subscribers, and very often it is said that this number is 3.5 to 4 times higher than the subscriber base. I know of a least 1300+ active and confirmed subscribers, but the actual number is much, much higher... and I suspect the list initially gets immediate distribution to closer to 2000 or more, but anyway you look at it the TSCM-L is the largest forum in the world for discussing TSCM, bug sweeping, wiretap detection, and related topics. -jma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10961 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 1:50pm Subject: Re: Re: More Posts Dissappearing Yes, you are correct, the moderator can delete a posting from the archives, the original poster can delete a message, and Yahoo can delete a message, but this seems to be a case of someone contacting Yahoo, and then Yahoo deleting the message in a knee-jerk reaction instead of actually reading the message. Here is some details on the messages that have been deleted in the past month, they all involve one, single subject matter. The "customersupport " identity means they someone at cusotmer support ay Yahoo manually removed the message. 1/28/2005 11:00 am customersupport Deleted message #10505 1/28/2005 11:00 am customersupport Deleted message #10751 2/2/2005 7:01 pm customersupport Deleted message #10866 #10867 #10871 The funny part is that one of the messages that was deleted on 2/2/2005 was nothing more than a message that stated that several messages had been deleted, so not only is someone trying to get the original messages deleted, but they are try to cover their tracks by having messages about the deletion deleted, and then deleting those deletion of their deletions in hopes that they might be deleted (I have a headache). Suffice to say, all they are doing is drawing more attention to themselves and they are doing little more then continuing their prima donna games and abusive behavior that got them tossed off the list in the first place. Message 10505 was posted on 1/5 and you can clearly see the missing gap in the sequence. 10503 Re: looking for a tdr delta agenceadi Wed 1/5/2005 10504 Re: Digital Cell phone scanning James Greenwold Wed 1/5/2005 10506 Re: looking for a tdr J. Coote Thu 1/6/2005 10507 Re: Digital Cell phone scanning Ian Wraith ian_wraith Thu 1/6/2005 10508 Sweeps needed Hawkspirit dawn_star_7 Thu 1/6/2005 Message 10751 was posted on 1/24, and like the previous message there is a gap in the sequence 10749 Re: An apology Tech Sec Lab secureoffice Mon 1/24/2005 10750 Re: a good spectrum analyzer between 2 and 6ghz James M. Atkinson graniteislandgroup Mon 1/24/2005 10752 Re: Gentle Reminder Robert Motzer rcm7740 Mon 1/24/2005 10753 Re: FBI abandons Carnivore wiretap software L. F. Elia lfelia Mon 1/24/2005 10754 Editorial: Anatomy of a bank fraud WHEN DATES DON'T MATCH savanted1 savanted1 Mon 1/24/2005 Message 10866 was posted on 1/3 and there is a noticeable gap in the message sequence in this and the other missing posts in the archive. 10864 Technical Sweeps clive michaels ekim0332 Mon 1/31/2005 10865 Re: "Sound of Voices" ?????? LD C silkfreelander Mon 1/31/2005 10868 Re: "Sound of Voices" ?????? A Grudko damstuff2000 Tue 2/1/2005 10869 File - mission.txt TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Tue 2/1/2005 At 03:05 PM 2/5/2005, contranl wrote: >. > >Those that can remove messages(archive),links,files,photos are: > >1) The moderator(s) >2) The writer of the message (if he's still member) >3) Yahoo >4) Someone else who has stolen 1 of above identities or has managed > to become a member again (using the same id) > >I have some groups myself..sometime ago all links and files and >messages were gone...but back again after my complaint...to my >question of what happened i never got a personal answer,just some >prefabricated general apologies. > >You have to insist in asking Yahoo if they removed the message or not >i suppose in the end they will give you an answer...depending on >what they say you can start to think about what else might be going >on. > >I know you can add things to a Yahoo-group wich they not intended. >(inserting HTML-code where you should put plain text) >As far as i know this can only be done by the moderators because >they only have acess to those fields where you could do this. > >I just removed my previous last (unimportant)message on this group >to see what happens...as expected i could remove it and now there is >1 number(10940)missing from the ordered row. >(useless experiment..sorry) > > >Tetrascanner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10962 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 2:44pm Subject: Stolen Equipment Alert A large quantity of TSCM equipment was stolen from someone a short time back, and it looks like it is starting to show up on E-Bay and other places. Looks like the thief sat on it for a while to let it cool off, but is trying to now trying to sell it off. The equipment includes a bunch of Kaiser phone equipment, audio amps, Scanlocks, spectrum analyzer, and some Riser Bond TDR's. If anybody offers to sell you this kind of equipment, you see it listed on E-Bay, or you see it being advertised for sale on a website somewhere please let me know privately and I will ensure the appropriate authorities are notified, and that you are put in touch with the victim so you can return their property. If you have recently purchased any ***Used*** gear, TDR's, or Scanlocks on E-Bay or through other sources you should hold onto your receipt, and start asking awkward questions as to where the equipment actually came from (the gear may be in the batch that was stolen). This is not a problem with new equipment, just with the used gear, or gear that was claimed to be "demo gear", refurbished, repaired, etc. Ask for serial numbers BEFORE you pay for the equipment, and ask questions as to whom the previous owner was... you may find that the equipment is indeed hot. If you buy any equipment be sure to use PayPal to send funds, or use a credit card but be sure not to sign any kind of "waiver" so that you can dispute the charge if the equipment ends up being stolen. Make sure that you get some kind of hard copy invoice for the equipment BEFORE you pay for it, and that you keep careful records. Please call or email me if you need any details, Please be careful folks, -jma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10963 From: contranl Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 3:57pm Subject: Re: More Posts Dissappearing . Jim...to make a long story short Do you get a respons from Yahoo when you ask about this ? Tetrascanner 10964 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 4:11pm Subject: Re: Re: More Posts Dissappearing Yahoo claims that someone who identified themselves as a federal law enforcement officer contacted them and requested that the posts be removed. -jma At 04:57 PM 2/6/2005, contranl wrote: >Jim...to make a long story short > >Do you get a respons from Yahoo when you ask about this ? > > >Tetrascanner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10965 From: A Grudko Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 4:46pm Subject: RE: More Posts Dissappearing -----Original Message----- From: James M. Atkinson [mailto:jmatk@t...] > A review of the moderator logs today, reflect that someone at Yahoo is quietly deleting posts from the archive again. James, PLEASE send me copies of the 2 posts that someone wants to see them go the way of Kenny Boy's Enron documents :-) Andy G South Africa ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 2005/02/01 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10966 From: A Grudko Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 4:46pm Subject: RE: Re: "Breaking-In" to technical security -----Original Message----- From: wiggyyy2000 [mailto:wiggyyy2000@y...] > go on many PI's websites and the first thing they go on is cheaters or annys.. On websites maybe, but not in my experience. I've been a PI for 24 years and a long term member of various professional associations. I've also been President of the South African Council of Investigators for 10 of the past 12 years, which includes advising the SA government on the laws that now regulate the industry in this country. In addition I also belong to a number of serious US and UK PI yahoogroups and matrimonial work is probably not even 5% of of the discussion content. 'Cheaters' is regarded as a bad image presented by a tiny minority of PIs. I don't know what 'annys' is but I assume you mean 'Anny's'. > i am sure that is not all they are good for but that is where the majority of money comes from these days... I doubt that very much, but admit I have not seen any studies on it. I only get a handful of such enquiries a year, but circumstances may differ between countries. Contrary to what you appear to think, matrimonial assignments are the lowest paid type of PI work, with a few exceptions where large dollar settlements or disputes may arise. The few investigators that start off doing matrimonial work tend to be the less qualified ones and get out and into insurance, corporate and/or criminal work as quickly as possible. More experienced investigators, such as ex-police officers or intelligence staff usually bypass the keyhole peeping stage and go straight into the more serious arenas. > as to the fact of many PI groups using sub standard equipment and they themselves planting their own bugs I don't accept it as a fact as it is the opposite of my experience. > you are asking me to name names and I will NOT do that.. No, I am not and I doubt that you know any. > it is a known fact that quite a few have that practice and I have personally heard a very reliable person that has been in the tscm feild tell me about a scam concerning a PI [planting a bug] It is not a known fact to me. I carry out an average of 70 sweeps a year and always discuss my client's concerns in detail before the job and give a full written report afterwards. In 24 years I have only heard one first hand account of a PI being caught and named planting a bug during a sweep. On the other hand I have had a number of sceptical clients plant bugs prior to a sweep to test my abilities. My opinion is based on reality, not reality TV or urban legends. Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. "When you need it done right - first time" ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 2005/02/01 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10967 From: Maury Siskel Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 4:44pm Subject: Added mystery -- Re: Re: More Posts Dissappearing Jim, when I tried to view a couple of your links to the deleted emails, Yahoo would not recognize my Yahoo password nor would it recognize me as a member of TSCM-L. Just an interesting further complication. I've used Yahoo email for years. Cheers, Maury James M. Atkinson wrote: >Yahoo claims that someone who identified themselves as a federal law enforcement officer contacted them and requested that the posts be removed. > >-jma > > >At 04:57 PM 2/6/2005, contranl wrote: > >--------- snipped -------- > 10968 From: Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 11:16am Subject: Re: Re: More Posts Dissappearing Can you say BS! Guess Carnavor is up and working. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10969 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 5:36pm Subject: Fallacious Arguments http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FallaciousArguments Fallacious Argument: An argument that sometimes fools human reasoning, but is not logically valid. It is crucial to remember that reasoning from definitions and facts to conclusions is fundamentally different from reasoning about definitions. Before you can scientifically establish whether or not Foo is a Bar, you have to establish the meaning of the label Bar. A given term is associated with one or more definitions and one or more concepts. A definition is correct when it accurately represents a chosen concept. Definitions can be more or less formal, the more formal the better. Concepts are not correct or incorrect, but merely useful. Formal Fallacies (incorrectly constructed logical syllogisms) AntecedentAssumedFallacy (A is true because of B, but B is true because of A) [similar to CircularReasoning] ArgumentByAnalogy (A is like B; A has property P; therefore, B has property P) [similar to UndistributedMiddle? or CompositionFallacy?] BeggingTheQuestion (A hidden assumption supports the "proof" in process) CircularReasoning (A is because of B, which is because of C, which is because of A) PostHocErgoPropterHoc (A follows B so B causes A) CorrelationImpliesCausation (There is a demonstrated correlation between A and B, therefore A implies B) [same as PostHocErgoPropterHoc] NonSequitur? (Conclusion does not follow from the premises) FalseDichotomy is on the list below; DeleteWhenCooked Informal Fallacies (well-known) (These are fallacies you are likely to find in textbooks) AdHominem (The person saying P is biased or otherwise flawed, so P is false) AdVerecundiam (P is true because person/entity X has said so) ArgumentFromAuthority (quote someone famous) [equivalent to AdVerecundiam] ArgumentumAdBaculum (Argument from fear; "If you believe P, you'll suffer for it") ArgumentByTheMasses (aka ArgumentumAdPopulum; A is true because "everybody knows it is true") EquivocationFallacy (using a term with multiple definitions as if the definitions were equivalent when they are not) NoTrueScotsman (Assert that A conforms to B - redefine the identity of A until it does) RedHerring (A is true because of totally irrelevant B) StrawMan (a weak argument specifically put forth to be knocked down) ArgumentumAdInfinitum (aka ArgumentumAdNauseum?; A argues longer/more eloquently than B, so A's proposition must be true) ArgumentumAdIgnorantiam (if A can't imagine P to be true, it can't be true) DisproofByFallacy (aka AdLogicam; Argument has been made at some point for A through error X, therefore A must be false) ComplexQuestion? (A question contains an assertion assumed to be true, e.g. "Have you stopped beating your wife?") FalseDichotomy (aka BifurcationFallacy, ThisOrThatFallacy, ExcludedMiddle, FalseDilemma?; e.g. "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists.") Informal Fallacies (colloquial) (Most of these are variants of other fallacies or otherwise suggested by contributors) ArgumentFromIntimidation (see also ImmaturityArgument) [not the same as ArgumentumAdBaculum] AbsenceOfEvidenceIsNotEvidenceOfAbsence (We have never observed a proton decay, therefore it can never happen) AnonymousChoir (there are people out there who agree with me) ArgumentByGibberish (utter things that turn on the lower third) ArgumentByRepeatedAssertion (use "Saddam" and "Al Qaeda" together in the same sentence often enough and eventually they'll believe it, evidence or not) ArgumentFromSilence () AssumedAgreementFallacy (So-and-so agrees with me on X, so he probably agrees with me on Y too). AssumedScalabilityFallacy. (A works well as a small system; therefore it will work well as a large system. Or vice versa) AvoidingTheQuestion (The response to a question does not actually answer it). ConceptsOutOfContext (B pertains to A when B makes no sense in the context of this A) ConfusingTheoryAndPractice (practice of A > practice of B implies theory of A > theory of B or vice versa) DesertIslandFallacy (New technology B should be abandoned in favor of old technology A, because B will fail if you're ever stranded on a desert island) DisagreeByDistorting (assume an example would be, You want the government to assume restricted responsibility X, therefore you must be a totalitarian socialist) DogmaticFallacy evidence against some X is excluded by the UniverseOfDiscourse DuelingCredentials (I know more about X than you do, so I win) EveryoneHasHisOpinion (the opinion of a layperson is as good as that of an authority) EvidenceByBestCaseScenario (best case example may distract from problem domain) EvilOrStupid (If you don't agree with me, which one are you?) ExcerptionNotAbstraction (dogs are animals with four legs, so what about amputated dogs?) FailureToElucidate (Using terms more obscure than the primary point at issue) GordianReasoning (A is because of B, which is because of C, which is because of D... which is because of Y, which is because of Z, which is because of A) GrandConspiracy (asserting that the world is being manipulated by a cabal of some sort) IdontSufferFoolsLikeYou (Asserting that the opponent is unworthy of debate) IfItAintBrokeDontFixIt (Arguing that older things are better than the newer ones) IfItAintScottishItsCrap (The merits of X can be determined by some superficial attribute of X) IfItsWorseThanMineItsGarbage (If A some instance of B, so A > B) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10970 From: taylortscm@y... Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 7:36pm Subject: Re: Stolen Equipment Alert jim: thanx for this post as I do purchase about 200k in equipment every year . if you have serial#'s or any info such as area that theft occurred in and care to to let me know please reply privately dan taylor group ps watch some of the pi lists recently there was a post concerning several kaiser pieces including telephone analyzers and 1059's "James M. Atkinson" wrote: A large quantity of TSCM equipment was stolen from someone a short time back, and it looks like it is starting to show up on E-Bay and other places. Looks like the thief sat on it for a while to let it cool off, but is trying to now trying to sell it off. The equipment includes a bunch of Kaiser phone equipment, audio amps, Scanlocks, spectrum analyzer, and some Riser Bond TDR's. If anybody offers to sell you this kind of equipment, you see it listed on E-Bay, or you see it being advertised for sale on a website somewhere please let me know privately and I will ensure the appropriate authorities are notified, and that you are put in touch with the victim so you can return their property. If you have recently purchased any ***Used*** gear, TDR's, or Scanlocks on E-Bay or through other sources you should hold onto your receipt, and start asking awkward questions as to where the equipment actually came from (the gear may be in the batch that was stolen). This is not a problem with new equipment, just with the used gear, or gear that was claimed to be "demo gear", refurbished, repaired, etc. Ask for serial numbers BEFORE you pay for the equipment, and ask questions as to whom the previous owner was... you may find that the equipment is indeed hot. If you buy any equipment be sure to use PayPal to send funds, or use a credit card but be sure not to sign any kind of "waiver" so that you can dispute the charge if the equipment ends up being stolen. Make sure that you get some kind of hard copy invoice for the equipment BEFORE you pay for it, and that you keep careful records. Please call or email me if you need any details, Please be careful folks, -jma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10971 From: littledog Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 5:49pm Subject: Re: Added mystery -- Re: Re: More Posts Dissappearing I also have had a couple of my posts censured, these so called fed law enforcers have no respect for any of our rights and to speak the truth concerning their petty stupid abuses invites more than censure..littledog> -----Original Message----- > From: Maury Siskel [mailto:maurysis@e...] > Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005, 3:25 PM > To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Added mystery -- Re: [TSCM-L] Re: More Posts Dissappearing > > > > Jim, when I tried to view a couple of your links to the deleted emails, > Yahoo would not recognize my Yahoo password nor would it recognize me as > a member of TSCM-L. Just an interesting further complication. I've used > Yahoo email for years. > Cheers, > Maury > > James M. Atkinson wrote: > > >Yahoo claims that someone who identified themselves as a federal law > enforcement officer contacted them and requested that the posts be removed. > > > >-jma > > > > > >At 04:57 PM 2/6/2005, contranl wrote: > > > >--------- snipped -------- > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > 10972 From: Riskbiz Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 9:35pm Subject: RE: List Statistics Congratulations James. DK -----Original Message----- From: James M. Atkinson [mailto:jmatk@t...] Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 12:13 PM To: TSCM-L Subject: [TSCM-L] List Statistics List membership has stabilized over 1230 active subscribers and due to it's size I really don't keep track of who is behind which Yahoo, Hotmail, AOL, or related accounts. The actual list membership is closer to 1300 members, but at any given moment at least 50-75 list members are bouncing for a variety of reasons, but half of these clear in 24-48 hours (1230 + 75/2 = 1268). Additionally, I know that a number of the list addresses are actually "exploders" where a post sent to that addresses is copied or exploded out to a number of additional (hidden) email addresses. One such exploder account has 130+ additional subscribers behind one such account, another exploder has 25+ subscribers behind another one in England, and so on. As close as I can tell we have at least a number or such accounts where the list goes to 300 exploded additional accounts (this gives use a subscriber base of something close to 1600 or so). Quite a few list members forward copies of the daily digest to others in their organizations via a hard copy format instead of an email version, and a number of subscribers include the daily posts in their in-house daily or weekly security briefings. As a rule a newsletter, magazine, or any piece of material is actually read by many times the actual number of subscribers, and very often it is said that this number is 3.5 to 4 times higher than the subscriber base. I know of a least 1300+ active and confirmed subscribers, but the actual number is much, much higher... and I suspect the list initially gets immediate distribution to closer to 2000 or more, but anyway you look at it the TSCM-L is the largest forum in the world for discussing TSCM, bug sweeping, wiretap detection, and related topics. -jma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links 10973 From: The Price's Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 10:27pm Subject: RE: Stolen Equipment Alert Hi JMA, Can you provide a bit more detail as I do not want to purchase anything stolen, and would like to assist the rightful owner if I come across these items. John -----Original Message----- From: James M. Atkinson [mailto:jmatk@t...] Sent: February 6, 2005 1:45 PM To: TSCM-L Subject: [TSCM-L] Stolen Equipment Alert A large quantity of TSCM equipment was stolen from someone a short time back, and it looks like it is starting to show up on E-Bay and other places. Looks like the thief sat on it for a while to let it cool off, but is trying to now trying to sell it off. The equipment includes a bunch of Kaiser phone equipment, audio amps, Scanlocks, spectrum analyzer, and some Riser Bond TDR's. If anybody offers to sell you this kind of equipment, you see it listed on E-Bay, or you see it being advertised for sale on a website somewhere please let me know privately and I will ensure the appropriate authorities are notified, and that you are put in touch with the victim so you can return their property. If you have recently purchased any ***Used*** gear, TDR's, or Scanlocks on E-Bay or through other sources you should hold onto your receipt, and start asking awkward questions as to where the equipment actually came from (the gear may be in the batch that was stolen). This is not a problem with new equipment, just with the used gear, or gear that was claimed to be "demo gear", refurbished, repaired, etc. Ask for serial numbers BEFORE you pay for the equipment, and ask questions as to whom the previous owner was... you may find that the equipment is indeed hot. If you buy any equipment be sure to use PayPal to send funds, or use a credit card but be sure not to sign any kind of "waiver" so that you can dispute the charge if the equipment ends up being stolen. Make sure that you get some kind of hard copy invoice for the equipment BEFORE you pay for it, and that you keep careful records. Please call or email me if you need any details, Please be careful folks, -jma -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10974 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 7:13am Subject: IBM, Sony, Toshiba to unveil 'Cell' chip [This chip has some interesting applications in the area of TSCM equipment, and Signals Instelligence. -jma] IBM, Sony, Toshiba to unveil 'Cell' chip Seen competing with Intel, the 'supercomputer on a chip' will power small devices like the PS3. February 7, 2005: 7:10 AM EST SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The highly anticipated microchip that will power the Sony PlayStation 3 video game system will be described in detail for the first time Monday by its developers, IBM, Sony Corp. and Toshiba Corp. Dubbed a "supercomputer on a chip," the Cell microprocessor has until now been long on ambition but short on specifics. At a technical conference here, the three electronics giants say they plan to disclose the inner workings of the chip, which is designed to run portable electronics, home entertainment devices and powerful computers. Aimed squarely at the "digital home" market highly sought-after by Intel Corp. (Research), the Cell initiative, which has been in development for more than three years, is viewed by some as a formidable, if fledgling, competitor to the world's largest chip maker. The Cell chip will appear in the PlayStation 3, the follow-on to Sony's (Research) successful video game console that is expected to be released next year. Cell will likely also be marketed as an ideal technology for televisions and supercomputers, and everything in between, said Kevin Krewell, the editor in chief of Microprocessor Report. Cell "promises to be a very exciting challenge to mainstream processors," Krewell wrote in a recent issue, naming it the best chip technology of 2004, remarkable if only for the fact that no one has actually seen the chip in action. According to released details, Cell is based on the core of IBM's (Research) existing Power processor line, which is used in desktop PCs made by Apple Computer Inc. (Research) Cell contains multiple cores, allowing it to perform like many chips in one. It is capable of "massive floating point processing, optimized for compute-intensive workloads and broadband rich media applications, including computer entertainment, movies and other forms of digital content," according to an earlier statement from the companies. Sony and IBM have called Cell a strong technology for high-powered workstations and supercomputers, with multiple Cell chips able to work as a cluster. "The supercomputer-like processing and performance of the Cell processor-based workstation is just the beginning of what we expect will be a wide range of powerful next-generation solutions resulting from our joint development efforts," Colin Parris, an IBM vice president, said in a November statement. If history is any lesson, Cell is by no means guaranteed to encroach on the most successful microprocessor technology to date, the so-called x86 architecture that is the mainstay of the PC world and the profit center for both Intel and Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (Research) Intel itself once aimed at pushing the x86 technology to the margins with a chip called Itanium it developed at great cost with Hewlett-Packard Co. (Research) After a cool market reception, the Itanium project drifted away from those grand expectations. Today, Itanium remains a niche product marketed primarily at the relatively limited segment of supercomputers and high-end servers. Find this article at: http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/07/technology/cell_chip.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10975 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 7:51am Subject: Policing Video Voyeurs http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6919996/site/newsweek/ Policing Video Voyeurs The Feds join the battle against perverts with cameras By Kathryn Williams Newsweek Feb. 14 issue - In the summer of 2001, Jolene Jang was enjoying an outdoor festival in Seattle when she felt a creepy guy standing close behind her. He was reaching into her backpack. When she confronted him, the man started to run away, but Jang's boyfriend tackled him and held him until the police arrived. She figured that was the end of it. A few months later, a prosecutor called with unsettling news. The man wasn't just a pickpocket. He had been using a small digital video camera to take pictures up her skirt. Jang's assailant might have only wanted the pictures he took for himself. But those shots could have ended up on one of a growing number of voyeur Web sites that invite perverts to submit their secretly captured pictures of women in public bathrooms and locker rooms. A popular subgenre: "upskirt" shots of women getting out of cars or climbing stairs. Tiny cell phones with built-in digital cameras make it that much easier. "There's definitely a lot of people who think that upskirting­'Oh, big deal'," Jang says. "People who don't understand the depths of it should think about their wives or their kids." Jang was especially upset because the man who photographed her wound up serving only 38 days. He was convicted under Washington state's voyeurism law, but the state Supreme Court overturned the verdict, ruling that because Jang was out in public when it happened, she had no reasonable expectation of privacy. Furious, Jang became an outspoken activist, and eventually the state rewrote the law to make the space under a person's clothes private even in a public place. Currently 44 states have some kind of statute that make video voyeurism a crime. But vague wording and First Amendment issues­preserving legitimate surveillance activities, say, while banning prurient peeping­make them difficult to enforce. A just-passed federal law could help sort out the problem. The statute makes it a crime to secretly photograph someone on federal property or military bases. The law itself won't do much to protect anyone but federal workers and soldiers, but the hope is that state lawmakers across the country will copy it. Video voyeurism first gained national attention back in 1998, when Susan Wilson discovered that her neighbor had been secretly videotaping her with cameras hidden in her Louisiana home. At the time, there were no laws to fit the crime. "When I found out that it wasn't against the law, I felt even more violated," she says. Wilson's case partly inspired the federal law, called the Video Voyeurism Prevention Act of 2004. Now Congress and statehouses nationwide are grappling with a larger dilemma: how to make a law that extends into tough-to-police cyberspace. Thinking of getting back at your ex-wife by posting those "intimate" pics she once let you take? Rep. Mark Green of Wisconsin will soon introduce a bill to make that a crime unless the person consents. That's welcome news to women like Susan Wilson and Jolene Jang, who say they're always on the lookout for prying electronic eyes. "I'm still wearing skirts," Jang says. "But I make sure that they're on the longer side." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10976 From: Tim Johnson Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 8:13am Subject: IRISYS Thermal Imager Some of you may have heard of the Thermal Imager developed and sold by IRISYS (see http://www.irisys.co.uk/ for more information). I saw one demonstrated at a recent TSCM professional conference and it looked like a very inexpensive alternative to the $25,000.00 units (They are being sold on e-bay for around $2,000.00 by a representative here in the U.S). Before rushing out to buy one you should be aware that it is only supported by the older laptops with the serial interface. Many, if not most, of the newer laptops are not equipped with serial interface capabilities and it doesn't seem to work with the PCMCIA cards. If you are interested in this capability you can use a handheld "Palm Pilot" type display unit. I have been in contact with the dealer in the States and he contacted the company in the UK and the response was: I would not count on this capability any time soon. Best regards I'll keep trying and see if i can get my Palm Pilot i705 to recognize it.....no luck so far, but it might be because I'm trying to install it like I would software on a Mac. Mostly, I wanted to give you a heads up in the event you are looking at it. tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. Member INTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. 10977 From: Rob Muessel Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 9:36am Subject: RE: IRISYS Thermal Imager TSCM application of thermal imaging is quite useful, but it must be done properly with proper equipment. The IRIS IRI1011 is not the tool to use. There are several specs that matter in thermal imaging and two critical ones are the size of the detector in pixels and the size of the image created by the device. The IRI1011 has a 16 x 16 pixel detector array yeilding 256 pixels. Its display is 96 x 96. This is not anywhere near the resolution required to detect the things we need to see. As an example of an adequate imager, look at the specs from Monroe Infrared Technologies HFIR http://www.monroeinfrared.com/ProdFiles/95_HFIR%20specs.pdf. Its detector, a microbolometer, is an array of 320x 240, creating 76,800 pixels. The display is a color video monitor. I've tested low res thermal imagers. They're fun to play with, but they don't do the job. -- -- Rob Muessel, Director email: rmuessel@t... TSCM Technical Services Phone: 203-354-9040 11 Bayberry Lane Fax: 203-354-9041 Norwalk, CT 06851 www.tscmtech.com USA -----Original Message----- From: Tim Johnson [mailto:dbugman@d...] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 9:13 AM To: Recipient List Suppressed: Cc: bob@t... Subject: [TSCM-L] IRISYS Thermal Imager Some of you may have heard of the Thermal Imager developed and sold by IRISYS (see http://www.irisys.co.uk/ for more information). I saw one demonstrated at a recent TSCM professional conference and it looked like a very inexpensive alternative to the $25,000.00 units (They are being sold on e-bay for around $2,000.00 by a representative here in the U.S). Before rushing out to buy one you should be aware that it is only supported by the older laptops with the serial interface. Many, if not most, of the newer laptops are not equipped with serial interface capabilities and it doesn't seem to work with the PCMCIA cards. If you are interested in this capability you can use a handheld "Palm Pilot" type display unit. I have been in contact with the dealer in the States and he contacted the company in the UK and the response was: I would not count on this capability any time soon. Best regards I'll keep trying and see if i can get my Palm Pilot i705 to recognize it.....no luck so far, but it might be because I'm trying to install it like I would software on a Mac. Mostly, I wanted to give you a heads up in the event you are looking at it. tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. Member INTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" VAH! DENUONE LATINE LOQUEBAR? ME INEPTUM. INTERDUM MODO ELABITUR. =================================================== TSKS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10978 From: contranl Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 10:48am Subject: Re: IRISYS Thermal Imager . Rob/Tim...just to be shure...you are saying that the Irisys units are not usable in TSCM. (since the price is right i like to know for shure) Lets for example look at the possibility to detect cameras, the idea is to see the temperature-difference between the camera-housing) or lens-opening and the surrounding surface/objects. When i understand it well this one will do that if there is a temperature-difference of at least 0.5 degrees (Celcius) (not shure if that is the between sensor-pixels) Since this unit does not have a lot of pixels,both in the sensor and display,it probably does not give you enough resolution for detecting cameras at big distances, for example when you would stand in the middle of a large room and scan the walls and ceilings. What if you get a little closer (for example 3 meters or less ) that would give you a little more work...still not usable ? lets say an average spy-camera housing would be 3 x 3 cm's, a standard lens opening 7 mm's,and a pinhole lens opening 2 mm's, As i understand a pinhole camera hidden in a plastic clock and looking trough a 2 mm hole ,would give a bigger "warmer" area then just the 2 mm hole.it would also warm up the surrounding area. Question 1) How close would you have to be to see them with this low-cost Irisys unit ? Question 2) Some time ago we discussed some units here that were based on optical reflection. (using a laserbeam-reflection to detect optical lenses) Seems to me that this low-cost IR-device is a better choice (for this kind of money) ? For your reference have a look at: http://www.spybusters.com/Infrared.html As you can see the IR-spots visible are not that small and i am not convinced that they would not show up on a Irisys Ok...a more expensive unit would be nice but not neccessary ? Thanks. Tetrascanner http://www.tetrascanner.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gsm-scanner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/traffic-cams 10979 From: contranl Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 10:59am Subject: Anyone know this new Yahoo-group (Email-tracer) . Just got note of this new Yahoo group called Email-tracer http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emailtracer/ This is is what it's about: "This group is being set up for professional private investigators who trace Emails for clients or want to learn how to do it. I know you will like this resource" I have not checked it good yet ...anyone knows if they are OK and usefull ? Thanks Tetrascanner 10980 From: Tim Johnson Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 11:03am Subject: Re: IRISYS Thermal Imager I'm going to see if i can get a USB to Serial cable to work with this. If not, I'll have my son configure it for my Palm Pilot when he comes in this weekend (he's the computer geek in the family, not me. I'm a Mac user) Once I get it operating, I'll do some evaluating and let you know what the results are. I got it mostly to play around with and also to see if it had any applications for TSCM. I didn't know it would only work on the Serial connector (which the new computers are being built without). tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10981 From: contranl Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 2:28pm Subject: Re: Anyone know this new Yahoo-group (Email-tracer) . Funny they exist only one day...and already have 592 members...i am shure that is not possible. (unless they use some tricks as Jim mentioned before) So probably these are they good guys to talk to since they are "cheating" even before they've started :) Tetrascanner