From: Perry Myers Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 3:36pm Subject: To remove yourself You need to go to the web site to remove yourself. To subscribe or unsubscribe go to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L Perry D. Myers, CFE CEO & President Myers Service, Inc. Investigations 2076 N. Elston Ave. Suite 200 Chicago, IL. 60614-3940 Phone 773-342-8300 Facsimile 773-486-4430 email: perry@d... For information on investigative services please visit our web site at www.detectiveservices.com This e-mail is strictly confidential. If you receive this email in error, please forward immediately to info@d... 152 From: Andre Holmes <1ach@g...> Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 7:20pm Subject: Re: Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you report your findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I believe thats the normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring period. -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Star To: TSCM-L@onelist.com Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM Subject: [TSCM-L] >Jay, I have a Tektronix 1503 that I've been using since 1980. Its range goes for miles if you know the tricks. It really kicks butt. In 1985 I busted a bunch of federal wiretaps with it and they threw me in jail and set my bail at one million dollars. How's that for certifiable results. Roger > >P.S. I've used this unit on over 2500 sweeps (25 to 50 lines per sweep) all on active trunks with ring-in's all the time - this unit never misses a beat - and its power lies in using it on active lines including station lines within the local system. > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as >0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >Apply NOW! >http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/0/_/507420/_/955035859/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... >=================================================== TSKS > 153 From: Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 8:04pm Subject: Re: Re: antenna Go to www.onelist.com and remove yourself from the list. 154 From: Jesse Thomas Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 2:42pm Subject: Re: Re: Delete I believe that is where the term, "clueless" came from. Negative-@w... wrote: > Arthur, Please get a clue. Posting to the list is not how you take your > self out of it. > Erik. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/0/_/507420/_/955051773/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 155 From: William Knowles Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:45pm Subject: Re: Re: antenna On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Robert P. Savoie wrote: Getting off of mailing lists doesn't seem to be the bag of all the mail lately, and most of tech stuff goes clear over my head, but its begining to make some sense the more I look at it. > Please remove my name from the mailing list. Tech stuff is not my > bag. Thanks If you all spent a little time reading the entire message you would see a URL at the bottom of the messages pointing you to: http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L Which at the bottom of that page you would find... Addresses: Post message: TSCM-L@egroups.com Subscribe: TSCM-L-subscribe@egroups.com Unsubscribe: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@egroups.com List owner: TSCM-L-owner@egroups.com URL to this page: http://www.egroups.com/group/TSCM-L So over sending mail to over 350+ members of this list that you want off, You could very well mail the list owner if unsubscribing didn't pan out to take you off the list, and really, eGroups is one of the easiest lists to get off of. -WK > arthur wrote: > > > please remove my name from mailing list > > > > arthur@m... ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L or email your subscription request to: subTSCM-L@t... =================================================== TSKS *-------------------------------------------------* "Communications without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communications is irrelevant." Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC --------------------------------------------------- C4I Secure Solutions http://www.c4i.org *-------------------------------------------------* 156 From: Jesse Thomas Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 2:40pm Subject: Re: Stop the Mail,Please Dear snowbunny, I don't get it. What is this 'confidentiality' stuff, when you don't even say anything.. Warren Wotton wrote: > Warren Wotton Contact: > > Brandon University Wotton@B... > 270-18th Street 204-727-9665 > Brandon,Manitoba > CANADA > R7A 6A9 > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for > the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed and may contain information that is privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable > law. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. > If you have received this transmission in error, please > notify us immediately by return E-mail or by telephone at > 204-727-4475 and destroy the transmission by deleting the > file and/or shredding any paper copy. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/0/_/507420/_/955058226/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 157 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 1:50pm Subject: Forbes Article I thought the list might find the following article interesting. It's actually quite funny how the kid got caught. http://www.forbes.com/columnists/penenberg/ Now back to hunting for bugs, -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved =================================================================== 158 From: Robert G. Ferrell Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 10:38am Subject: Re: Re: antenna >If you all spent a little time reading the entire message you would >see a URL at the bottom of the messages pointing you to: I think we should drop all this hooha about UFOs and alien abductions and concentrate on the weird phenomenon of people who don't know how to get off of mailing lists they must have signed up for. I've been watching this eerie development for several years now. It cuts across all walks of life and all ages, races, and cultures. Apparently there are literally thousands of people on mailing lists out there who have no idea how they got there, or how to get off, despite the fact that the information is almost always right there in front of them, frequently as part of the very message to which they're replying. Is this some new and insidious form of dyslexia that's being spread by increasing computer semi-literacy? Perhaps it's a virus that comes attached to the automated response you get when you sign up for a mailing list. I doubt that these same people would write a letter to the editor of a newspaper to have their subscription cancelled. What malignant force is it that causes them to take a similar action where mailing lists are concerned? I call for a White House Special Task Force to investigate immediately, before the terror spreads any further. RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Information Security Officer National Business Center, US DoI Robert_G_Ferrell@n... ------------------------------------------------------------ Nothing I have ever said should be construed as even vaguely representing an official statement by the NBC or DoI. ------------------------------------------------------------ 159 From: Arthur Bishop Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 5:25pm Subject: FREE Just a quick announcement regarding our FREE FraudKiller applications. The FraudKiller applications used to be free for download on our site. For various reasons, we dumped the stand-alone applications (you had to download and install) in favor if web applications (immeidate gratification with no download / install). The FraudKiller applications are now available in a private area for investigative professionals. The applications allow you to construct driver license numbers from personal data for nine (9) states. In addition, you can extract SSN's from Nevada driver license numbers. Use of these applications is FREE to licensed professionals who use the resource responsibly. You can apply for access at: http://www.vindico.com/FraudKiller/Register.htm best to all Arthur Bishop Vindico, Inc. Fraud-Fighting Resources: http://www.vindico.com FREE Fraud-Fighting and Investigative Software: http://www.vindico.com Investigation, Privacy and Personal Protection: http://www.vindico.com Skip Tracing Resources: http://www.vindico.com SSN Validation Software: http://www.vindico.com The Browser Security Test: http://www.vindico.com The Wizard of Search! http://www.vindico.com/search/WizOfSearch.htm 160 From: Dawn Star Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 6:55pm Subject: normal procedure Message: 2 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:44 -0400 From: "Andre Holmes" <1ach@g...> Subject: Re: Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you report your findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I believe thats the normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring period. -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Star To: TSCM-L@onelist.com Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM Subject: [TSCM-L] Sure, I called them up and said " I just busted a bunch of your wiretaps so why don't you come on down to my office and arrest me and charge me with obstruction of justice and conspiracy" Let me tell you, it ain't no joke when you sitting across the table from the F.B.I., D.E.A., I.R.S criminal, and United States Customs and they want to know why their taps aren't playing music anymore! Roger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 161 From: Robert G. Ferrell Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 2:17pm Subject: Re: Forbes Article > http://www.forbes.com/columnists/penenberg/ I spend about half my life doing exactly this sort of investigating, and I gotta tell ya that it's almost never this easy: photos of the guy's car and a citation, for God's sake. Sheesh. Brian just lucked out. RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Information Security Officer National Business Center, US DoI Robert_G_Ferrell@n... ------------------------------------------------------------ Nothing I have ever said should be construed as even vaguely representing an official statement by the NBC or DoI. ------------------------------------------------------------ 162 From: Adam Penenberg Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 2:13pm Subject: lists sometimes people who sign up for something online and don't see an "opt-out" feature can end up on mailing lists they didn't intend to sign up for. for ex., if you sign up for excite.com you will end up receiving loads of spam from harris barton interactive (of harris polls fame), asking you to participate in online polling. i interviewed several people for a column who had no idea how they ended up on the harris poll spam list. (see http://www.forbes.com/columnists/penenberg/2000/0320.htm) or friends, acquaintances and contacts will sign you up for lists without your knowing. (that's how i ended up on several.) that said, what's the big deal anyway? i'm sure most of us on the list here get dozens, if not 100s of emails a day; a few from tscm doesn't add up yto all that much. --adam ---------- >From: "Robert G. Ferrell" >To: TSCM-L@egroups.com >Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Re: antenna >Date: Fri, Apr 7, 2000, 11:38 AM > >>If you all spent a little time reading the entire message you would >>see a URL at the bottom of the messages pointing you to: > >I think we should drop all this hooha about UFOs and alien abductions and >concentrate on the weird phenomenon of people who don't know how to get off of >mailing lists they must have signed up for. I've been watching this eerie >development for several years now. It cuts across all walks of life and all >ages, races, and cultures. > >Apparently there are literally thousands of people on mailing lists out there >who have no idea how they got there, or how to get off, despite the fact that >the information is almost always right there in front of them, frequently as >part of the very message to which they're replying. Is this some new and >insidious form of dyslexia that's being spread by increasing computer >semi-literacy? Perhaps it's a virus that comes attached to the automated >response you get when you sign up for a mailing list. > >I doubt that these same people would write a letter to the editor of a newspaper >to have their subscription cancelled. What malignant force is it that causes >them to take a similar action where mailing lists are concerned? > >I call for a White House Special Task Force to investigate immediately, before >the terror spreads any further. > > >RGF > > >Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP >Information Security Officer >National Business Center, US DoI >Robert_G_Ferrell@n... >------------------------------------------------------------ >Nothing I have ever said should be construed as even vaguely >representing an official statement by the NBC or DoI. >------------------------------------------------------------ > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as >0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >Apply NOW! >http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/0/_/507420/_/955134179/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... >=================================================== TSKS > > 163 From: Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 5:49am Subject: Re: Hey Roger, Sorry about the jail time but man ......what results! The authorities aren't so hot anymore. Similar stories are surfacing. Good Luck DM 164 From: Andre Holmes <1ach@g...> Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 9:18pm Subject: Re: normal procedure To Members of TSCM-L So why did roger have to go through the turmoil I personally was told by the FBI that they are only concerned with wiretaps bugs they really dont care, now I confused. -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Star To: TSCM-L@onelist.com Date: Saturday, April 08, 2000 7:50 PM Subject: [TSCM-L] normal procedure >Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:44 -0400 > From: "Andre Holmes" <1ach@g...> >Subject: Re: > >Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you report your >findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I believe thats the >normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring period. >-----Original Message----- >From: Dawn Star >To: TSCM-L@onelist.com >Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM >Subject: [TSCM-L] > > >Sure, I called them up and said " I just busted a bunch of your wiretaps so why don't you come on down to my office and arrest me and charge me with obstruction of justice and conspiracy" Let me tell you, it ain't no joke when you sitting across the table from the F.B.I., D.E.A., I.R.S criminal, and United States Customs and they want to know why their taps aren't playing music anymore! Roger > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! >1. Fill in the brief application >2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds >3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR >Apply NOW! >http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/0/_/507420/_/955237810/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... >=================================================== TSKS > 165 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 10:15pm Subject: Always remember, 49.9% of your friends are below average [humor] After all of the bitching, moaning, flaming, and complaining on the list this week I thought it was time to post some humor. Come on folks, relax, have a laugh, and don't be for intense. -jma Always remember, 49.9% of your friends are below average. It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. If at first you don't succeed, blame it on your parents. The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil. For sale: an antique desk suitable for lady with thick legs and large drawers. 14% of Americans surveyed agree that Puerto Rico should not be the 51st state because "that extra star would make the flag look bad." 23% of Perot voters say, "The candidate I vote for usually loses." 17% of college graduates would punch themselves really hard in the face for $50. 28% of Americans think that our army's high-tech military equipment is too expensive to risk in combat. One third of American women agree that baseball was more exciting when it was on strike. When Ford Motor Company began marketing their popular Pinto in Brazil years ago, they were puzzled by terrible sales. Things improved when they changed the name to Corcel, which means "steed." Pinto is Brazilian slang for "tiny male genitals..." Tired of cleaning yourself? Let me do it. Dog for sale: eats anything and is fond of children. Rehab is for quitters God bless Darwin. Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not some kind of medical technician! YOU! OUT OF THE GENE POOL! Stock up and save. Limit: one Why buy a product that it takes 2000 flushes to get rid of? Our bikinis are exciting. They are simply the tops. Illiterate? Write today for free help. I discovered today that goldfish do not like jello. Screw the planet, save yourself. What is another word for synonym? If a mute swears does his mother wash his hands out with soap? When sign makers go on strike, is anything written on their signs? When you open a big bag of cotton balls, is the top one meant to be thrown away? Why isn't there mouse flavored cat food. Is it possible to be totally partial. If a funeral procession is at night, do people drive with there lights off? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? How can the weather be hot as hell one day and cold as hell another? Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis. I hope if dogs ever take over the world, and they chose a king, they don't just go by size, because I bet there are some Chihuahuas with some good ideas. The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face. If you were a poor Aztec with no weapons, and a bunch of conquistadors came up to you and asked where the gold was, I don't think it would be a good idea to say, "I swallowed it. So sue me." When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they ever press charges. To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other. Probably the earliest fly swatters were nothing more than some sort of striking surface attached to the end of a long stick. If a stealth bomber crashes in a forest, will it make a sound? If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages? Should vegetarians eat animal crackers? If cops arrest a mime, do they tell him he has the right to remain silent? Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, really loudly, for no good reason. Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his head out when you're coming home his face might burn up. If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did." If you saw two guys named Hambone and Flippy, which one would you think liked dolphins the most? I'd say Flippy, wouldn't you? You'd be wrong, though. It's Hambone. Mom used to get offended when I used the word "puke." But to me, that's what her dinner tasted like. Children need encouragement. If a kid gets an answer right, tell him it was a lucky guess. That way he develops a good, lucky feeling. Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet. Instead of trying to build newer and bigger weapons of destruction, we should be thinking about getting more use out of the ones we already have. If you ever catch on fire, try to avoid looking in a mirror, because I bet that will really throw you into a panic. I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed shrink is our friend. I wish outer space guys would conquer the Earth and make people their pets, because I'd like to have one of those little beds with my name on it. I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it. I wish I lived back in the old west days, because I'd save up my money for about twenty years so I could buy a solid-gold pick. Then I'd go out West and start digging for gold. When someone came up and asked what I was doing, I'd say, "Looking for gold, ya durn fool." He'd say, "Your pick is gold," and I'd say, "Well, that was easy." Good joke, huh. =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved =================================================================== 166 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 10:21pm Subject: Re: FREE Arthur, In the future please do not post product announcements to the TSCM-L list unless it has a specific application for running spectrum analyzers, performing FFT, extracting RF from 480 Volt AC mains, or similar TSCM function, I welcome spirited discussion of TSCM and related subjects with an occasional piece of humor, biting satire, or philosophy). But PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not spam the list, or include it in cross postings of things that have nothing to do with TSCM, TEMPEST, HI-JACK, NON-STOP, etc. -jma At 3:25 PM -0700 4/8/00, Arthur Bishop wrote: >Just a quick announcement regarding our FREE FraudKiller applications. > >The FraudKiller applications used to be free for download on our site. For >various reasons, we dumped the stand-alone applications (you had to >download and install) in favor if web applications (immeidate gratification >with no download / install). > >The FraudKiller applications are now available in a private area for >investigative professionals. The applications allow you to construct driver >license numbers from personal data for nine (9) states. In addition, you >can extract SSN's from Nevada driver license numbers. > >Use of these applications is FREE to licensed professionals who use the >resource responsibly. > >You can apply for access at: > >http://www.vindico.com/FraudKiller/Register.htm > >best to all > >Arthur Bishop >Vindico, Inc. =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved =================================================================== 167 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 10:30pm Subject: Re: lists Ahem, The ONLY way you can get on the TSCM-L mailing list is for you yourself to sign up via the onelist website, or to send me an Email requesting membership. I decline about 30% of all membership requests, and try to limit subscribers to only those people actively involved in the TSCM business. I normally exclude anybody with a criminal background (whether convicted or not), mental patients, people who work both sides, and anybody with poor ethics. The list exists to educate, illuminate, and to enhance the profession, period. While there are a small number of people on the list who are new to the business and "may still be a bit green" they are good folks who will eventually mature into respected TSCM'ers. Nobody, REPEAT NOBODY gets on the list without specifically requesting membership. -jma At 3:13 PM -0400 4/7/00, Adam Penenberg wrote: >sometimes people who sign up for something online and don't see an "opt-out" >feature can end up on mailing lists they didn't intend to sign up for. for >ex., if you sign up for excite.com you will end up receiving loads of spam >from harris barton interactive (of harris polls fame), asking you to >participate in online polling. i interviewed several people for a column who >had no idea how they ended up on the harris poll spam list. (see >http://www.forbes.com/columnists/penenberg/2000/0320.htm) > >or friends, acquaintances and contacts will sign you up for lists without >your knowing. (that's how i ended up on several.) that said, what's the big >deal anyway? i'm sure most of us on the list here get dozens, if not 100s of >emails a day; a few from tscm doesn't add up yto all that much. > >--adam > > > > >---------- > >From: "Robert G. Ferrell" > >To: TSCM-L@egroups.com > >Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Re: antenna > >Date: Fri, Apr 7, 2000, 11:38 AM > > > > >>If you all spent a little time reading the entire message you would > >>see a URL at the bottom of the messages pointing you to: > > > >I think we should drop all this hooha about UFOs and alien abductions and > >concentrate on the weird phenomenon of people who don't know how >to get off of > >mailing lists they must have signed up for. I've been watching this eerie > >development for several years now. It cuts across all walks of life and all > >ages, races, and cultures. > > > >Apparently there are literally thousands of people on mailing >lists out there > >who have no idea how they got there, or how to get off, despite >the fact that > >the information is almost always right there in front of them, frequently as > >part of the very message to which they're replying. Is this some new and > >insidious form of dyslexia that's being spread by increasing computer > >semi-literacy? Perhaps it's a virus that comes attached to the automated > >response you get when you sign up for a mailing list. > > > >I doubt that these same people would write a letter to the editor >of a newspaper > >to have their subscription cancelled. What malignant force is it >that causes > >them to take a similar action where mailing lists are concerned? > > > >I call for a White House Special Task Force to investigate >immediately, before > >the terror spreads any further. > > > > > >RGF > > > > > >Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP > >Information Security Officer > >National Business Center, US DoI > >Robert_G_Ferrell@n... > >------------------------------------------------------------ > >Nothing I have ever said should be construed as even vaguely > >representing an official statement by the NBC or DoI. > >------------------------------------------------------------ =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved =================================================================== 168 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 11:42pm Subject: Notification Chain Good Evening, I am just in from spending all day (the last 17 hours) on a sweep, and I am dog tired, so I will make this Email brief. In the event that you find a bug, wiretap, illegal use or possession of surveillance equipment you are legally obligated to notify law enforcement. There are no what ifs, no lame excuses, blah, blah, blah. If you find a technical surveillance device, you must notify law enforcement, period. If a technical surveillance device (or activity) involves classified information, national defense, economic espionage, T3 violations, or related issues you had better make sure the FBI gets formally involved. (Study up on Title 18, and the FBI's "MIOG, Manual of Investigative Operations and Guidelines"). As a rule I will not even leave the office for any type of TSCM projects unless I have first familiarized myself with a "Notification Chain". This "Chain" contains the names, agencies, and telephone numbers (including fax) of everybody who would need to be notified of any finding. I also prepare a series of fax-able notification letters in advance that permit me to fill in the blanks and squirt hard copies off (via laptop) to the appropriate agencies before establishing voice contact. Of course you have to collect and verify all of numbers, names, etc in advance. If "something nasty" is found that is a actual violation of the law, or would be of interest to a federal law enforcement agency then I push to have the area considered a crime scene, and push to have it immediately secured and sealed. If "nobody is officially interested" in sealing the scene, then I at least get a local L/E officer to come by and complete an incident report. Of course in all cases you should documents, document, document, as the person who finds the bug will (as a rule) be initially suspected as the person who planted it. Allowing an investigator to see your "work products" may very well help you avoid any kind of "awkward situation". Also, try to get a series of Polaroids (I prefer 8*10 LF) of the area and of the suspect device. If possible also set up a video recorder to catch all activity around the suspect device "in case someone gets cute" and tries to make the device disappear. Of course your mileage may vary. -jma. =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved =================================================================== 169 From: Andy Grudko Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 4:22am Subject: Re: Re: antenna ----- Original Message ----- > I think we should drop all this hooha about UFOs and alien abductions and > concentrate on the weird phenomenon of people who don't know how to get off of > mailing lists they must have signed up for. Robert, this was a brilliant commentary. So there IS intelligent life on Earth after all...... Andy Grudko (CEO) - Grudko Wilson Associates (SA) (Pty) Ltd Johannesburg - Cape Town - Durban - Pretoria - UK - US - Canada - Australia Israel - www.grudko.com. - (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) - Est. 1981 Members of : SCIP (Gauteng Chairman), SACI (President), GIN (Charter), WAD, CALI, SASFed, SASA, SAMLF, UKPIN, Prisoners' Rehabilitation & Education Trust --- "When you need it done right - first time" --- 170 From: Andy Grudko Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 5:06am Subject: Re: lists blah blah ----- Original Message ----- > I decline about 30% of all membership requests, and try to limit > subscribers to only those people actively involved in the TSCM > business. I normally exclude anybody with a criminal background > (whether convicted or not), mental patients, people who work both > sides, and anybody with poor ethics. So how did I get on? Groucho Marx said "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have someone like me as a member". (:-) Out of interest - we carry out about 15 commercial TSCM sweeps a month. We find devices in about 3% of cases. we beleive that illegal surveillance in South Africa is 'common' , mostly carried out by PIs. How do we compare to you guys round the world? Andy Grudko (CEO) - Grudko Wilson Associates (SA) (Pty) Ltd Johannesburg - Cape Town - Durban - Pretoria - UK - US - Canada - Australia Israel - www.grudko.com. - (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) - Est. 1981 Members of : SCIP (Gauteng Chairman), SACI (President), GIN (Charter), WAD, CALI, SASFed, SASA, SAMLF, UKPIN, Prisoners' Rehabilitation & Education Trust --- "When you need it done right - first time" --- 171 From: Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 7:50am Subject: Re: Always remember, 49.9% of your friends are below average [humor] Amen! 172 From: McIntyre Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 10:02pm Subject: Re: Forbes Article At 02:17 PM 04/07/2000 -0500, you wrote: > > http://www.forbes.com/columnists/penenberg/ > >I spend about half my life doing exactly this sort of investigating, and I >gotta >tell ya that it's almost never this easy: photos of the guy's car and a >citation, for God's sake. Sheesh. Brian just lucked out. Actually, when it comes to these little script kiddies.....you'd be surprised how easy it is. I'm often surprised at how long it takes for Fed LE to catch up with them some times. We already know the Feds use printouts of the Attrition mirrors for questioning and later as evidence. You figure they'd make better use of it for things like "greet patterns", HTML metatags, graphic analysis, as well as simple search engines like Altavista and Google, or Dejanews. These kids almost always leave a trail as many of them have been using the net for years.....a lot of that time using their real persona. 173 From: Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 4:35am Subject: Re: lists blah blah Andy, Can you somehow get me your address. I'd like to get a letter off to you. Thanks DM Clockdepot@a... 174 From: 1RCM <1RCM@M...> Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 9:21am Subject: Two Items Hi Group, First I'd like to give a hearty Amen to the moderator's last post regarding notifying LE upon the finding of any device or penetration - active or suspect. It is simply the right thing, the ETHICAL thing and the legal thing to do. And before anyone asks me to show the specific statutes, laws or sections that mandate a report of the find or a surrender of the item, as one who worked in this arena for 15 years I'll freely grant you that they all are admittedly hazy and vague and really open to interpretation and argument. But think about this - if you have a find and don't report it (especially if it is one of 'theirs') and someone even 'whispers' about it (can you really trust your client's secret-keeping abilities even though you are only trying to respect his wishes?) a good investigator has many options in his bag of tricks. For example he can have the IRS crawl up your six. After all you did find the thing as a representative of a business that definitely has all its I's dotted and T's crossed - didn't you and don't you? Or he can establish that you merely touched the device while handing it to whomever - an interesting case of violation of Title III, conspiracy and withholding evidence. Or he could 'play' a ton of other fun 'games' with you, your expensive lawyer, and your business that all leave you shamed, tired and broke before he decides that you've learned your lesson. And please don't say that any of that violates your rights, its against the law, or whatever. It is simply a matter of if you want to 'play' so can 'they'. So do the right thing and the ethical thing and just report the find. Don't roll the dice and take a chance on a forced intimate relationship with a guy named Bubba for about 15 years. Failure to make proper notifications (or at least having a DOCUMENTED record of making attempts if you don't readily or easily 'get anyone interested' ((Steve Uhrig can attest to this problem)) is a game that may be good for repeat business or honoring a client's request, but it is also one that you'll eventually lose! Second, has anyone had any bad experiences with Optoelectronics lately. I have several Opto devices that I've had good experience and good service with in the past. But last year I bought one of their TechToyz DTMF mini-decoders that now has me cussing their name. I used it only about 5 times over the past year and for the last two months it sat turned-off on a shelf. A few weeks ago when I went to use it - Nada, it wouldn't even power-up! I checked the usual problems - nope. I got some suggestions via e-mail from Opto to try - still nothing. So they said "send it down and we'll look at it". The reply came back that after some checking they can't get it to work either. They apparently agree that there was no misuse, no water damage, no 'tinkering', no power problems and nothing else adverse on my part that they can see - they just don't know why it won't work. So their answer is to charge me 2/3 of the cost of a new one to get the thing working. Naturally I declined. I'm not whining here, and with the thing out of warranty I certainly didn't expect the repair for free - but 2/3 the price of a new one seems a bit excessive to me - especially since whatever happened to it apparently is related to manufacturing and not to my actions. I'm just wondering if anyone else has found Opto's customer service to have gone down hill or if I have a 'fluke' here and everyone else has had good service. Also, I'm now looking for an inexpensive DTMF decoder (built or kit) that only will be used infrequently - any suggestions? Thanks, 'Just another Bob' 1RCM@M... 175 From: Jesse Thomas Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 5:31am Subject: Re: lists blah blah Didn't Woody Allen say that? Andy Grudko wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > So how did I get on? Groucho Marx said "I wouldn't want to join a club that > would have someone like me as a member". (:-) > 176 From: Trace Carpenter Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 9:17am Subject: Re: normal procedure Seem's like I've been an argument over this before, but I'd still like to hear input from others in the business. We've had instances over the years when after finding a tap, the client wanted it left alone for self serving reasons. In these instances it was either a domestic dispute/divorce or corporate espionage situation. In any event, the taps were illicitly placed. Therefore they were being left on the line to either place surveillance on the tap to catch the party, or to launch a disinformation campaign. My take on it has always been that Texas is a one party consent state and the owner of the line now knows the conversation is being monitored therefore he or she is now the one party. Basically then we have no Complainant so there are no charges to be filed. Secondly, regardless of the situation, it's not my phone line so I have no formal standing to make a complaint or be a Complainant. I know there are others out there that are hard core "you must report it." Any opinions? Dawn Star wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:44 -0400 > From: "Andre Holmes" <1ach@g...> > Subject: Re: > > Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you report your > findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I believe thats the > normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring period. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dawn Star > To: TSCM-L@onelist.com > Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM > Subject: [TSCM-L] > > Sure, I called them up and said " I just busted a bunch of your wiretaps so why don't you come on down to my office and arrest me and charge me with obstruction of justice and conspiracy" Let me tell you, it ain't no joke when you sitting across the table from the F.B.I., D.E.A., I.R.S criminal, and United States Customs and they want to know why their taps aren't playing music anymore! Roger > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/0/_/507420/_/955237810/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS -- *Trace Carpenter *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 *Dallas, Texas 75201 *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ 177 From: Jordan Ulery Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 9:03am Subject: Re: normal procedure In a one party state you are likely ok. In a two party state you had better read the law. If it is like NH the law states clearly that any type of device is illegal sans court order. In addition, NH law requires the reporting of felonies (wire taping is a felony) so you are SOL trying to hide the device; you are mandated to report. Trace Carpenter wrote: > Seem's like I've been an argument over this before, but I'd still like to hear input from others in the business. > > We've had instances over the years when after finding a tap, the client wanted it left alone for self serving reasons. In these instances it was either a domestic dispute/divorce or corporate espionage situation. In any event, the taps were illicitly placed. Therefore they were being left on the line to either place surveillance on the tap to catch the party, or to launch a disinformation > campaign. My take on it has always been that Texas is a one party consent state and the owner of the line now knows the conversation is being monitored therefore he or she is now the one party. Basically then we have no Complainant so there are no charges to be filed. Secondly, regardless of the situation, it's not my phone line so I have no formal standing to make a complaint or be a > Complainant. I know there are others out there that are hard core "you must report it." > > Any opinions? > > Dawn Star wrote: > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:44 -0400 > > From: "Andre Holmes" <1ach@g...> > > Subject: Re: > > > > Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you report your > > findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I believe thats the > > normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring period. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dawn Star > > To: TSCM-L@onelist.com > > Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM > > Subject: [TSCM-L] > > > > Sure, I called them up and said " I just busted a bunch of your wiretaps so why don't you come on down to my office and arrest me and charge me with obstruction of justice and conspiracy" Let me tell you, it ain't no joke when you sitting across the table from the F.B.I., D.E.A., I.R.S criminal, and United States Customs and they want to know why their taps aren't playing music anymore! Roger > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > > 1. Fill in the brief application > > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > > Apply NOW! > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/0/_/507420/_/955237810/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > subTSCM-L@t... > > =================================================== TSKS > > -- > *Trace Carpenter > *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 > *Dallas, Texas 75201 > *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile > *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/0/_/507420/_/955376273/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 178 From: Trace Carpenter Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:57am Subject: Re: normal procedure That's been my take on it. If I believed that the device was legally placed and the disinformation campaign was being launched against law enforcement, then of course I would have more concerns. However when you find a regular speed recorder hooked to a Radio Shack parallel switch hidden in the attic it's doubtful :>) Jordan Ulery wrote: > In a one party state you are likely ok. In a two party state you had better read the law. If it is like NH the law states clearly that any type of device is illegal sans court order. In addition, NH law requires the reporting of felonies (wire taping is a felony) so you are SOL trying to hide the device; you are mandated to report. > > Trace Carpenter wrote: > > > Seem's like I've been an argument over this before, but I'd still like to hear input from others in the business. > > > > We've had instances over the years when after finding a tap, the client wanted it left alone for self serving reasons. In these instances it was either a domestic dispute/divorce or corporate espionage situation. In any event, the taps were illicitly placed. Therefore they were being left on the line to either place surveillance on the tap to catch the party, or to launch a disinformation > > campaign. My take on it has always been that Texas is a one party consent state and the owner of the line now knows the conversation is being monitored therefore he or she is now the one party. Basically then we have no Complainant so there are no charges to be filed. Secondly, regardless of the situation, it's not my phone line so I have no formal standing to make a complaint or be a > > Complainant. I know there are others out there that are hard core "you must report it." > > > > Any opinions? > > > > Dawn Star wrote: > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:44 -0400 > > > From: "Andre Holmes" <1ach@g...> > > > Subject: Re: > > > > > > Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you report your > > > findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I believe thats the > > > normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring period. > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dawn Star > > > To: TSCM-L@onelist.com > > > Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM > > > Subject: [TSCM-L] > > > > > > Sure, I called them up and said " I just busted a bunch of your wiretaps so why don't you come on down to my office and arrest me and charge me with obstruction of justice and conspiracy" Let me tell you, it ain't no joke when you sitting across the table from the F.B.I., D.E.A., I.R.S criminal, and United States Customs and they want to know why their taps aren't playing music anymore! Roger > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > > > 1. Fill in the brief application > > > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > > > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > > > Apply NOW! > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/0/_/507420/_/955237810/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > > subTSCM-L@t... > > > =================================================== TSKS > > > > -- > > *Trace Carpenter > > *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 > > *Dallas, Texas 75201 > > *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile > > *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/0/_/507420/_/955376273/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > subTSCM-L@t... > > =================================================== TSKS > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LOW RATE, NO WAIT! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates > as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/0/_/507420/_/955379015/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS -- *Trace Carpenter *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 *Dallas, Texas 75201 *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ 179 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 11:56am Subject: Re: normal procedure [Soap Box Mode ON] Ouch, Ouch, Ouch, Let me repeat myself: I doesn't matter which state you are in... If you find a bug, wiretap, etc it is critical that you immediately involve some level of law enforcement. The sale, possession, use, exploitation, etc of such things is illegal UNDER FEDERAL LAW (state law be damned), and failure to inform law enforcement makes you liable for federal obstruction of justice charges. However, If the suspect device is a tracking device (operating under its own power), or a video camera (also operating under its own power, and without an audio circuit) then you may or may not need to contact law enforcement. If it is an audio, telephone, TTY, computer, or related intercept device (or software) then you and the FBI need to talk. If you value your freedom (some don't) , then you will FORMALLY notify a law enforcement agency if you find a *** KNOWN *** bug or wiretap, period. If you have thought to the contrary I would STRONGLY encourage you to contact AUSA Mary Jo White (in writing) or Janet Reno and formally ask "her thoughts" on the subject. If you ask your attorney for advise in this matter make you you get his opinion in writing, and that he will defend you in a criminal case at no charge in the future. Also, if a law enforcement agency claims that "it is one of theirs" ask for the name of the Judge, court of jurisdiction, and the docket/case number so that you can be formally placed under a protective order. Of course if the interception is not court ordered, they will refuse to provide such information (which is a clue it is an illegal wiretap), and you should immediately contact the FBI or local U.S Attorneys office ASAP. Please, for your own sake, do not try to be cute... you will only get hurt. -jma [Soap Box Mode OFF] At 10:03 AM -0400 4/10/00, Jordan Ulery wrote: >In a one party state you are likely ok. In a two party state you >had better read the law. If it is like NH the law states clearly >that any type of device is illegal sans court order. In addition, >NH law requires the reporting of felonies (wire taping is a felony) >so you are SOL trying to hide the device; you are mandated to report. > >Trace Carpenter wrote: > > > Seem's like I've been an argument over this before, but I'd still >like to hear input from others in the business. > > > > We've had instances over the years when after finding a tap, the >client wanted it left alone for self serving reasons. In these >instances it was either a domestic dispute/divorce or corporate >espionage situation. In any event, the taps were illicitly placed. >Therefore they were being left on the line to either place >surveillance on the tap to catch the party, or to launch a >disinformation > > campaign. My take on it has always been that Texas is a one >party consent state and the owner of the line now knows the >conversation is being monitored therefore he or she is now the one >party. Basically then we have no Complainant so there are no >charges to be filed. Secondly, regardless of the situation, it's >not my phone line so I have no formal standing to make a complaint >or be a > > Complainant. I know there are others out there that are hard >core "you must report it." > > > > Any opinions? > > > > Dawn Star wrote: > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:44 -0400 > > > From: "Andre Holmes" <1ach@g...> > > > Subject: Re: > > > > > > Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you >report your > > > findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I >believe thats the > > > normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring period. > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dawn Star > > > To: TSCM-L@onelist.com > > > Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM > > > Subject: [TSCM-L] > > > > > > Sure, I called them up and said " I just busted a bunch of your >wiretaps so why don't you come on down to my office and arrest me >and charge me with obstruction of justice and conspiracy" Let me >tell you, it ain't no joke when you sitting across the table from >the F.B.I., D.E.A., I.R.S criminal, and United States Customs and >they want to know why their taps aren't playing music anymore! >Roger =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved =================================================================== 180 From: William L. McCrory Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:36am Subject: Re: normal procedure Talk with your attorney. If he or she isn't practicing criminal law, you may want to talk with one who is, and find out what your criminal liability could be under state and federal laws. Consider that if you leave an illegal interception in place, you may well be an accessory after the fact, aiding and abetting a felony, or committing misprision of felony. If your TSCM practice requires you to have a license issued by your state, have your attorney explain any reporting obligations that may attach to having the license. Again, check with your attorney to better understand what may be required of you in your state. One-party consent can only be given by one who is lawfully a party to the conversation being intercepted. Ownership of the line does not automatically convey the right to intercept the conversations of two or more non-consenting parties. In some business settings, employees have signed documents acknowledging that they have been told that their telephone conversations may be monitored, but that does not sound like the case here. Ownership of the line does not affect your standing to "make a complaint." If you know a crime has been committed, either federal or state, you have every right to report it. You are a witness, not a victim. Trace Carpenter wrote: > Seem's like I've been an argument over this before, but I'd still like > to hear input from others in the business. > > We've had instances over the years when after finding a tap, the > client wanted it left alone for self serving reasons. In these > instances it was either a domestic dispute/divorce or corporate > espionage situation. In any event, the taps were illicitly placed. > Therefore they were being left on the line to either place > surveillance on the tap to catch the party, or to launch a > disinformation > campaign. My take on it has always been that Texas is a one party > consent state and the owner of the line now knows the conversation is > being monitored therefore he or she is now the one party. Basically > then we have no Complainant so there are no charges to be filed. > Secondly, regardless of the situation, it's not my phone line so I > have no formal standing to make a complaint or be a > Complainant. I know there are others out there that are hard core > "you must report it." > > Any opinions? > > Dawn Star wrote: > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:20:44 -0400 > > From: "Andre Holmes" <1ach@g...> > > Subject: Re: > > > > Roger wrote I busted a bunch of wiretaps question Roger did you > report your > > findings to the FBI when you first discovered the taps I believe > thats the > > normal procedure that is to report all findings on telcowiring > period. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dawn Star > > To: TSCM-L@onelist.com > > Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 11:44 AM > > Subject: [TSCM-L] > > > > Sure, I called them up and said " I just busted a bunch of your > wiretaps so why don't you come on down to my office and arrest me and > charge me with obstruction of justice and conspiracy" Let me tell > you, it ain't no joke when you sitting across the table from the > F.B.I., D.E.A., I.R.S criminal, and United States Customs and they > want to know why their taps aren't playing music anymore! Roger > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > > 1. Fill in the brief application > > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > > Apply NOW! > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/0/_/507420/_/955237810/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > subTSCM-L@t... > > =================================================== TSKS > > -- > *Trace Carpenter > *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 > *Dallas, Texas 75201 > *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile > *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS